why can't i stop after 3 losers?

[jokepie]

wHAT WORKED FOR ME.

1. Get in the habbit of talking to your self, the way you did when you were getting ready for a Date. BUT KNOW that you are doing it.

2. I told my self that there is nothing wrong with the number of consecutive loosers to occur. Only thing wrong is that the instrument is not behaving Idealy and I must wait.

3. zoom in and out of small/ Large time frame to see if the side i am picking is in play ? Is there even a momentum visible or I am just getting Chopped. ususally its the later.

I dont know your strategy and can never understand the wires you have in your brain that execute them. However, you are the best judge of it. If they worked ever - They will continue to work.

When you psychologically agree to a fact that you HAVE to stop after a certain number of bad trades it causes the monkey brain fight it. Its just the human nature.
Also, after the first bad trade your brain will start to tilt already! subconciously, since now you can only make 2 trades to go break even or make a profit. IF god forbid the next one goes bad too. you will be ALready on the tilt trying to get to break even. your focus will switch from the trade setup (let the winner run) to a Goal that you never wanted - to break even in trading.

Being down is normal and is a part of the game. Getting control over that is tuff but becoming Unemotional to loss of money is PRICELESS!!

Try
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=219031

 

[ElectricSavant]

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but becoming Unemotional to loss of money is PRICELESS!!

 

[mongoose]

Ask your broker to set a daily loss limit on your front end. Once you're over that limit, you're locked out from entering any more trades.

 

[frank01st]

Quote from bstay:
Post your next 5 days' demo P&L on this thread. In demo it is natural to test all kinds of setups and hunches so if you don't have an edge as someone mentioned above and just guessing directions, you will lose even more on demo trades. Yes you probably will catch a few good winners on demo that you wished you had taken on the live account, but wait. Prove to this thread that you can accumulate profits for next 5 days. Show us.
You want to get back to real trading as soon as possible to erase those losses. But until you can show 5 good winning demo P&L days, you have no right to leave demo account. You are not qualified, you failed the test. And you cannot cheat by switching back to real account when you see a "high odds" setup while trading on demo, and selectively switch between demo and real. Do that high odds trade on demo also and make it a big winner. And make 5 good winning days on demo, if you can.

hi bstay,
attached are the past two days' results on demo. i cannot describe how revelating it has been for me since i started the thread. i took your challenge to proof that i can re-qualify myself back to live trading. while i haven't yet encountered the out-of-control day, in fact i'm looking forward to it the next 3 trading days. i have been very careful with my trades today and yesterday knowing i have something to proof in public, and i know it's a cliche to say i had an !epiphany! while staring at my charts looking for setups and wanting to be conscious when i entered into the mad state of mind or the "idiot" state. i can't say i'm now in full control of discipline but i noticed that i am now willing to let a trade go pass me. i don't take it, i don't jump into it. somehow, by not wanting to enter a trade, i was able to pick up winners. i don't know how to explain this, but i hope the next 3 days will be the same and my confidence comes back after that disastrous day. it's almost like a different (mad, idiot) person was sitting on this chair hitting that 0-7 losses, i still can't believe it.

i don't know how i will do when i start to hit losers in a row, but i want to experience it and in fact i won't get back to live trading until i hit a losing day in demo and analyze it in public.

 

[frank01st]

Quote from frank01st:
i am taking up your challenge, and to fix my own demons too. i did well today but i know full well that didn't solve the REAL issue until i get myself into a bad losing day and in deep trouble, that's when the mad state is out of control and i go back into the abyss i worked so hard to get out of. however i will start my count today:
please ignore the statements as i wanted to prove to bstay (and myself) that i did not adjust the report to show only good trades and that they are in proper sequence no fakes. demo account.
Day 1 challenge, +$603 demo.
(5 more days to go before i go back live account, and hope to re-master the discipline i lost so suddenly)

again, please ignore the statements as i show it to proof no manipulations. attached is the tally after two days. in DEMO.
Day 1 challenge, +$603 demo.
Day 2 challenge, +$503 demo.

 

[frank01st]

day 1 statements again. somehow i can't upload 3 files at once :-(

 

[darktrader]

Quote from frank01st:

day 1 statements again. somehow i can't upload 3 files at once :-(

frank I see from ts statements that you trade with more than one lots, I'm trading my strategy with one lot and try to let the profit run, but it is very hard because you know you often give back good profits this way, starting from monday I will simulate with 2 lots, do you have any advice about multiple lots you can give me...

many thanks

 

[bstay]

Looking at the statements, I think Frank has much better chance of fixing his problems than darktrader, lol. Frank, your winning rate is very impressive!! Are you showing off? Yes, looking forward to seeing how you messed up your day when you start to encounter 3 losing trades in a row. Not only will the losers drive down your winning rate, they will also reveal the mad state and then it is the "idiot" that is trading for the rest of the lousy day, trying to trade and trade to get back the losses. Dr Alexander Elder in his 1993 book Trading For A Living talked about the "destructive mode".

darktrader,
I don't think anyone can effectively trade with 1 single lot. It is not flexible and you can't take partial profits. You don't know how far it will go, and you will never be happy with your exits. I trade with even number lots, so that I can take profit with one portion at a smaller, discretionary target, and the remainder portion at a larger technical target. But splitting your exits will lower your Sharpe Ratio, it is one way to address emotional issues.

Just curious, darktrader when you go on demo can you also produce that kind of winning days like Frank? He has one problem to solve, that's the psychological issue. You seems to have TWO problems to solve: finding a technical edge, and psychological issue.

 

[bstay]

Quote from Roark:
Don't be so hard on yourself. Most people can't stop after eating 3 cookies. The reason is because humans are state machines. When you wrote the plan and reviewed it before trading started, you were in a different state than when you took the 3 losers. You entered the mad state after the three losers and the mad state is not disciplined.
Your different states are not consciously aware of other states. When you are in a particular state, that state thinks it is the only state in existence ever. When you wrote the plan, you were in an unemotional state and your unemotional state believed it would have the discipline to quit after 3 losers. However, your unemotional state did not realize you would be in a mad state after the 3 losers.
To get past this obstacle, recall the legend of Odysseus and the island of the Sirens. To get past the island, Odysseus instructed his crew to plug their ears with wax and tie him to the mast. He ordered the crew not to remove the wax from their ears, nor respond to him in any way until the ship had safely passed the island.
When the ship got within hearing distance of the Sirens, Odysseus become mad. He ordered the crew to turn toward the island and threatened execution to all who disobeyed. The crew ignored him. They had planned in advance to to obey the logical Odysseus, not this insane person who had temporarily entered a mad state. By sticking to their plan, the ship passed the island safely. How can you lash yourself to a mast so that your mad state does not destroy your account due to the siren call of daily profit?

Roark's excellent post needs to be read again. His analogy of the "mad state".

 

[marceck]

Quote from frank01st:

i have a written rule regarding money management. i traded well yesterday. but today i took 7 trades all losses (though 3 were half-sized "foot soldier"), even though my rules are to halt trading after 3 consecutive losers ..... and switch to demo account.

why can't i halt at 3 losers per plan? i do have a written plan that i looked at before each trading day. only 3 pages, not those 20 page comprehensive never-read-again plans.

i took some half-sized entries, stopped, but felt i had not yet reached my daily loss limit. so i continue on. the red P&L would have alarmed me if i had took 3 full sized stopped outs. as it is, i ignored the P&L to focus on what i should do the next trade. every new trade is independent by itself.

i averaged 77% winning percentage trading fulltime so i was confident my next trades would be good. i kept taking losers. by the time i finally caught myself, i had taken 7 trades all losers (3 half-sized and 4 full-sized). i surprised myself ...... how can i kept trying new entries with no concern for winning percentage. i would have stopped if i don't get 1 out of 3 or 1 out of 4 correct. but today i took 0 of 7. basically out of control. discipline lost. i am disappointed with myself as i'm not new to trading been trading since 1998 and fulltime since 2007 (and profitably paying bills). how can i suddenly lose the kind of discipline i worked so hard to develop? i kept trying next trade and next trade, making novice mistakes of getting it back. this is depressing .....

why can't i stop myself after 3 losers?

The real question is why did you not identify the day as chop (a most likely scenario, one we have all been through in formative years)? So yes, quit if you are losing, but more importantly identify why you were losing.