why can't i stop after 3 losers?

[bstay]

Quote from darktrader:
I have the same problem, this one I can't manage to remove, as I wrote yesterday on my journal, it took 4 years to manage not removing stops, add to a loser and taking profit as soon as I see green, and actually I have the opposite problem now, I don't take profit and often I give it all back, but when I try to pick a reversal, I can't stop, I have a max daily loss rule to prevent this and also a max number of trades as I'm trying to pick a reversal, but no way, no way, I think for me the only way is to have a broker who close my position for the day as soon as I reach my max daily loss, (I have one account with a broker who do this but it is in margin call and I'm now using tradestation that doesn't do this), also I have rules regarding how much profit I can give back if I'm in green for the day, I mean if I'm up $200 I can't end up the day at less then +$100, if there would be a broker that allowed me to change during the day the ammount where I have to stop that would be a very good thing, I mean if I'm up $200 and I have a last trade where my stop is $50, I could set up in a form to stop me at +$150 and if I reach this ammount it will close my positions and the trading privileges for the day.
the other solution is to have a person with you, another trader, or even someone else that shout down your pc. I actually decided to move to an office to share it with a friend to try this but he delayed 2 months and I found my self here alone and I made the same mistake a lot of time... and now it is too late, my account is close to margin call and I have to simulate.
sorry for my english...

You have the same problem as Frank. Like your approach to picking a reversal, you kept trying and trying and you told yourself "no way, no way" you can't control yourself and you think the solution is to have a broker, a spreadsheet, a trading buddy, something external to stop you and switch you off from this out of control state. Well, how effective is the external control if you yourself want to keep trying and trying and no way to stop? Does it make you feel good to have the platform or trading buddy shut you down after you hit your daily loss limit? No, it doesn't feel good because it was imposed on you.

I think someone mentioned something valuable, that you should develop an alternative strategy or trading setup to deal with, in your case, picking a reversal. Obviously your current method are not as effective as you thought, and you have to keep trying and trying and hitting daily loss limit. The solution probably means either not picking reversal, or to spend time developing a more effective setup that lessens your tries by filtering out your entry signals to the strictest. If it doesn't meet all these NEW criteria, you don't place the trade. The lesser you try, the lesser you get stopped out trying, the lesser the chance you hit your loss limit.

For Frank, it has to be the "type" of market day that he gets into trouble with, and he has to deal with it through a modified strategy just for that kind of day or market conditions. Like switching weapons in a video game, from a pistol to a rifle to a knife or grenade, and then back to pistol again for your default choice. You have to be alert in order to be flexible, and switching methods when the day suddenly turned different from what you expected.

 

[frank01st]

Quote from cornixforex:
This is pretty common psychological issue...
How do you think yourself: why do you keep trading despite your plan says stop trading? What is your own opinion about the cause of it?

i am working to refine the way i look at each trading day, how to trigger the appropriate response (for myself) when i detected a good day vs a bad day (which is different for everyone). i want the mad state to know what to do on a good day, and what to do on a bad day, and how i can prevent myself from keep trading on a bad day. i got some thoughts from a quote i clipped from somewhere:

"To me personally I believe the absolute must-have to shoot yourself through the learning curve is recognizing what type of day unfolded to trade. In other words was it a good day to trade or was it a tough one."

"From this you must ask yourself:
Did I trade according to what was available?
Did I push my trading on a tough day? This is not good. What was I focusing on?
Did I trade actively with a higher expectation for follow-through on a day the market offered more for me to take? If not what was I focusing on? If I did take advantage of a good day how can I recognize it next time?"

"Most new trader want to know how to make more money. The correct question to develop a good trader who can think on their own is: How do I recognize the difference between a tough day and a good one."

 

[cornix]

Quote from frank01st:

i am working to refine the way i look at each trading day, how to trigger the appropriate response (for myself) when i detected a good day vs a bad day (which is different for everyone). i want the mad state to know what to do on a good day, and what to do on a bad day, and how i can prevent myself from keep trading on a bad day...

Let me clarify: you think that you intentionally violate your plan to experience this and learn how to deal with it?

 

[zdreg]

Quote from frank01st:

please, don't encourage emg to come back here to troll. you can talk to him elsewhere but not here. i don't want him to post on my thread, please .....

this is proof that you are easily distracted. this is trait that you need to overcome.

your issues might be due to a serotonin imbalance.

 

[darktrader]

Quote from bstay:

You have the same problem as Frank. Like your approach to picking a reversal, you kept trying and trying and you told yourself "no way, no way" you can't control yourself and you think the solution is to have a broker, a spreadsheet, a trading buddy, something external to stop you and switch you off from this out of control state. Well, how effective is the external control if you yourself want to keep trying and trying and no way to stop? Does it make you feel good to have the platform or trading buddy shut you down after you hit your daily loss limit? No, it doesn't feel good because it was imposed on you.

I think someone mentioned something valuable, that you should develop an alternative strategy or trading setup to deal with, in your case, picking a reversal. Obviously your current method are not as effective as you thought, and you have to keep trying and trying and hitting daily loss limit. The solution probably means either not picking reversal, or to spend time developing a more effective setup that lessens your tries by filtering out your entry signals to the strictest. If it doesn't meet all these NEW criteria, you don't place the trade. The lesser you try, the lesser you get stopped out trying, the lesser the chance you hit your loss limit.

For Frank, it has to be the "type" of market day that he gets into trouble with, and he has to deal with it through a modified strategy just for that kind of day or market conditions. Like switching weapons in a video game, from a pistol to a rifle to a knife or grenade, and then back to pistol again for your default choice. You have to be alert in order to be flexible, and switching methods when the day suddenly turned different from what you expected.

bstay, sorry if I didn't explain well, my strategy is not trying to pick reversal with lots of trades, just 1, and sometimes 2, the problem is when I don't respect this rules, as Frank did.

if you consider intraday time frame, my strategy is always picking a reversal, but I act at long term S/R so often I'm following the main trend, so if you look at daily, weekly, monthly charts, often I'm not trading against the main trend, but just trying to follow it entering at key points, sometimes the market stalls at long term S/R with a congestion that could last hours, I think frank01st had the same problem I had at the same resistances.

sure I can add a filter or I can change strategy as I suspect it is a congestion, this I can try, if you have any suggestion please let me know.

now the only way I found to avoid this is just with money management: max number of trades, and the last barrier is a max daily loss.

another problem could happen if there is a strong trend that broke S/R and you keep on trying as the market reaches new S/R, and here the rules are the same as with congestions.

 

[bstay]

Quote from darktrader:
.... the problem is when I don't respect this rules, ....

If the rules are set by yourself and you don't follow it, I don't think there is any reason to continue trading. If you are the boss of your own hedge fund, would you hire 'darktrader' who has a problem with rules?

 

[darktrader]

Quote from bstay:

What about yourself darktrader? Are you profitable after 4 years of trading? How did you turn it around? If not, why are you still trying?

bstay, I posted my story in my trading journal, I'm not profitable but I think I'm making lots of improvements, but yes when you read my story on my journal you will think that I will never make it. But I wanted to post everything and didn't hide what I've done.

it's that I lost lots of money without using any strategy only emotions and I made all sorts of mistakes, you know the classic mistake, removing stops, adding to losers creating monsters, etc...

Anyway now I have a strategy (I have to improve with more precise rules), I have money management rules, I know how to lose money for sure, and I'm trading with just 1 contract, and I think this is a very important step. Actually I wanted to start learning to trade my strategy and developing it in demo mode, but I had a battered account with tradestation at around $200 from a margin call (and if you read my journal you will see that I could not found the account easily), but I started to trade live and I went from $2800 to $5000 in a couple of months, it could have been more without this last error I can't remove, that happened a couple of times, I mean the same as frank did, so I started the journal to see if it could help, but it happened again and again more frequently this last days, and so the account now is at $3300, but believe me, 2 years ago I used to blow up accounts in a few days.

These last days I made the same mistake quite every day, and so I decided to go demo to improve my strategy and I'm also going to a psychologist to help me cure this insane way I sometimes act.

the interesting thing is that when I told him that I would need someone to shout down my pc, or a broker that stops my trading day as I reach the max daily loss, etc... he told me the this way it is not the solution, because each time a person will switch of the pc or the broker will stops my I will go home feeling bad, like a failure, so we just started to develop a real solution.

always sorry for my bad english...

 

[darktrader]

Quote from bstay:

If the rules are set by yourself and you don't follow it, I don't think there is any reason to continue trading. If you are the boss of your own hedge fund, would you hire 'darktrader' who has a problem with rules?

you are 100% right, but I'm working hard to change this, sure posts like those of emg are very hard to accept, if only he could tell us his story. There are also posts from people who claims to be profitable, but who knows... I sometimes feel I can make it, but now I have decided to go to demo mode and I consider this decision another important step.

 

[bstay]

Quote from darktrader:
you are 100% right, but I'm working hard to change this, sure posts like those of emg are very hard to accept, if only he could tell us his story. There are also posts from people who claims to be profitable, but who knows... I sometimes feel I can make it, but now I have decided to go to demo mode and I consider this decision another important step.

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=220746
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=218445
No lack of such opinions.

 

[Handle123]

Quote from frank01st:


"To me personally I believe the absolute must-have to shoot yourself through the learning curve is recognizing what type of day unfolded to trade. In other words was it a good day to trade or was it a tough one."

"From this you must ask yourself:
Did I trade according to what was available?
Did I push my trading on a tough day? This is not good. What was I focusing on?
Did I trade actively with a higher expectation for follow-through on a day the market offered more for me to take? If not what was I focusing on? If I did take advantage of a good day how can I recognize it next time?"

"Most new trader want to know how to make more money. The correct question to develop a good trader who can think on their own is: How do I recognize the difference between a tough day and a good one."

Hoping you have total faith in your method, once you do, you have to take yourself out of your trading as if you have become a computer. This way if the method is not doing well, it is having a bad day, not you. Reason you can't stop at three losses, you are taking losses personal, if rules says quit, you are a computer, turn yourself off, go to the movies, leave the house, go swimming, take a long walk. Perhaps backtest to see if trading afternoon session will be better. I have a rule based on one contract how much I should be up on the day by a certain time, if this Goal is not reached, I have to reduce targets and size. If the method is alternating win/loss trades, to quit earlier and work the afternoon more aggresive, but it comes down to what the stats are in your backtesting. I monitor results based on fiftenn minute segments.