Why can't I pull the trigger?

[pk3r1234]

Black swan risk is real. See if your strategy will work on the long side of inverse ETFs

I looked at AqXp. Is this something you trade? on paper? It does not look tradeable to me. Ditto for KBIO. Both are very thin stocks.

If you are afraid of a sudden spike reversal (KIBO) then enter your sell of partial position at a certain level as soon as you get a fill - such that you have all your money back and the swing position is free.

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I would look at your past relationship with your father. (childhood). For all of us, success and approval is a key survival mechanism of young humans. They are helpless without love (can't physically survive on their own in nature) and approval gets linked to love.

You didn't have an issue losing your own money. Losing someone else's money is different.

IF you are consistently making money on paper trading
AND IF your trades can be made at a time convenient for your father,

Then you could set up a deal with your dad that you work as an adviser and get paid a fee.
So you recommend a buy of ABC at $20 and if it goes to $30 you receive 50% advisory fee.
So if 1000 shares you get $5,000 and your dad gets $5,000.

In this way you are not trading his money he is. Depending upon your relationship you can discuss the proposed trade with him. The review process can help in getting a second opinion. Also allowing your father input can make him feel necessary and involved. If he doesn't like the trade he could step aside but still put on a 1/2 position for you (where you keep all the profit, or loss, instead of 1/2).

Assuming what you said is true - that you are consistently profitable, you will quickly build up a substantial account of YOUR OWN money. Also your confidence will build.
Let's say you build $25,000 of your own money.

After this first phase you can trade some shares of your own money - earned from advising your father on subsequent trades for yourself in your account.

You both benefit from your skill and your dad can brag about how good and an adviser his son is. This builds your pride and confidence.

I hope it helps

I traded it on 8/07/15 During that day something like 70 million shares were traded. I'm always in stocks that are in play, I don't buy stuff that doesn't move. I can't stand stocks that have a small range. On paper I had an excellent day following my strategy trading aqxp, I'd bought huge size right before the largest breakout at around 5.71 with risk on 5.67 and sold some in the 6's 7's and cleared all at 8 within 10/15 minutes. Over the past year I've turned multiple 10k paper accounts into over 1m dollars total. Every time I've started out very slow until I turn a profit of around 200 dollars and then I up size by double and start taking all of the trades, over just the best of the best. It works in all markets, I will sometimes trade UVXY but I don't think you have as much of an edge over small/midcaps. I don't care if stocks are manipulated because most of them are, they still form the same patterns as forex/Spy.



We have a similar plan, I'm trading it though. I'm giving him half the profits because it's his money, He thinks of it more as an investment with very little risk because obviously I'm most likely not going to lose more than 2000 dollars trading with small size. If I do I would go back to the drawing board. Being an entrepreneur he figures It's a pretty small investment to create a business. He has a lot of confidence in me and I don't want to let him down, I really enjoy trading too. I couldn't imagine doing anything else really. I'm extremely passionate about being a great trader, money comes with great trades. When It really comes down to it a large amount of the stress comes from how many negative people there are saying it's impossible to day trade/market time and that I really don't have any other options, I live in an area where wages are less than 10 dollars a day. I know that people make it work though and If you really think about it though, it's 10% in anything that makes it. I have an american real estate license and it's pretty much the same story, most people never renew their license. That isn't where my passion is though and I never did anything with it. I think I'm going to be okay in the end, I made my first trade Friday, small profit which is a huge difference from last years first day. I can't wait until I'm actively trading 50/100 shares getting in and out of positions daily with no fear. I think that will be the start of something much better.

 

[WaxOn]

Mr Miyagi sends you old school book reading for a timeless problem of discretionary trading for a cerebral person:

1) The Disciplined Trader
2) Trading in the Zone

Also keep a journal of each trade. Those executed and those not. Record how you feel, think and act before during and after the trade (or lack thereof).

Things to be consciously aware of step by step include your perceived risk / reward before the trade (bear with me while i ramble) - - you must have a hard stop loss and a profit target - - monitor how and why you FEEL you made (or want to make) the trade for things like: been too long since you had a trade and need to feel the action or feel like you are in control, you feel left out of a good trade and chased the market, aggressively making up for losses; charity trade (laziness and overconfidence) after a good streak, just bored, you like the technicals but you don't know if you can trust them etc etc) - - and finally how you acted (or did not) act on the trade and what you would do differently if anything. Did you change the trade parameters in the middle and why? Did you pull out at the last second, or even 1 second into the trade? Did you not take profits where you said you would? Why why why...always ask why. You need to keep this journal for a few years.

Now you know why playing for keeps has absolutely nothing to do with paper trading. In fact, usually all paper trading does is generate false confidence and sets you up for failure emotionally.

The biggest enemy is almost always yourself. You can change your trading strategies and tactics (use paper trading for that) but you can't get outside of your own head. You need to mentally know yourself (I did not at your age) before you can truly trade for a living. And you cannot do that without taking risk. Risk reveals everything within you, and you will realize that you can't run from the inevitable.

You need to bring forward to your conscious the baggage that exists subconsciously,,, which can take some serious focus and honesty about who you really are as a person. Brutally honest things like fears of loss, fear of profit (oh yes, it exists) and all the baggage you inherited from your parents. It can go DEEP. Keep asking why for each feeling and action until you get to the bottom. The answer can sometimes be 30 "why's" until you arrive at a stupid ingrained piece of bullshit thrust upon you in your childhood. Or a defeatist attitude or insecurity or mental block your father used to repeat. yada yada. And it just fucked up your trade.

If you don't fight the enemy within you won't have a clear fact based mind and you wont 't be a trader. Wax on and wax off before getting into battle. Timeless themes never change.

Ideally you should feel no happier if your trade is a loser or a winner. Discipline means before every trade you enter with no regret of the outcome because you took your honest best shot for the 100% *right* reasons, and the chips fall where they may, and you can live with that.

Trading attracts a lot of lazy people and as you can probably see, long term success at this crazy game is anything but that. Discipline, mental honesty, and intellectual integrity vs "the easy way out". Its why the success rate is so goddamned low.

 

[syswizard]

I traded it on 8/07/15 During that day something like 70 million shares were traded. I'm always in stocks that are in play, I don't buy stuff that doesn't move. I can't stand stocks that have a small range.

That's a great strategy as long as the stock has liquidity. Usually, the movers do.

 

[Samsu_samsul]

Ideally you should feel no happier if your trade is a loser or a winner. Discipline means before every trade you enter with no regret of the outcome because you took your honest best shot for the 100% *right* reasons, and the chips fall where they may, and you can live with that.

Especially for this, remain neutral to any outcome of your trading is the hardest thing to do even when our shot is the best one. Some still get hyped seeing good outcome of his trading but they could control his emotions when he suffers some (little) losses...

 

[Buy1Sell2]

Yeah, but if you trade sim for a month and have only a couple of losing days, you are much less likely to blow-up when you trade real money...IF YOU FOLLOW YOUR RULES THE SAME.
That's the key.

FALSE AND EXTREMELY MISGUIDED

 

[sowterdad]

I'm so disappointed in myself, I have a 27000 dollar account. I've been working on my strategy for about a year full time and when it came down to it I couldn't pull the trigger with real money. On average I'm risking less than 10 dollars a trade.. Every time I haven't pulled the trigger when I know the outcome, I would have made at least 30-80 dollars. After blowing up last year It changed me though. It's not even that I lost that much at all. My account is bigger now but it's not my money, it's my dads. He doesn't even really care if I lose money as long as I'm trading with real money but I can't even pull the trigger with 100 shares on a 3 dollar stock. He even tries to convince me to use 1000 shares. How can I get over this? I'm convinced it's an issue with my first couple of trades, If I could hit a decent trade or couple trades I'll be on my way. But I feel like I'm waiting for a perfect trade that probably won't come very often. Should I be betting with 50 shares instead? I don't want everybody to think I'm flaking out of my trading. I also remember being very cautious starting out with paper, but now I'm even more cautious. Also, commissions with my new broker are only 1 dollar a trade, so small size isn't a problem really

You are very fortunate to have a father willing to fund your return to trading for a second time at bat- I think you already posted your own answer in this initial post -
Don't sweat what everybody else thinks that you are flaking out - You have to have confidence in what you are doing in real time with real cash-
You've gotten some good feedback here, and there is a lot at stake with the family involvement- Whether you are truly conscious of this demand on your own sense of the need for performance expectations may be clouding your judgement. Don't be in a rush to prove anything to anyone but yourself.

Since you have an account with IB- you can easily afford to spend a little- a few hundred dollars- in commissions to test yourself - and start at bat again with simply executing very small trades. The goal is to learn- and prove- not so much to focus on getting rich..
I suggest you consider a very simple and relatively slow approach in proving yourself and building your confidence.
You will laugh- but this approach is not about making big money- it's about making good executions- and will establish whether you are as effective in your trade executions as you think you are. With real $$$ and not SIM. The proof will reveal itself over a larger # of trades over time-
Your intuiton that you "Know" the outcome has to be translated into action- and knowing the unknowable is confirmation in a hindsight view of what might occur - after the fact- It is just one of the possibilities of a potential trade outcome- You see what you want to see -confirming your beliefs and perspective of what could have been- had you only taken that trade. Woulda-Coulda--shoulda- all after the fact- We 'see' that which we want to believe in - including how we could or would have executed such and such a trade.
My suggestion is that you step in the shallow waters first:
Perhaps that means that you simply trade 1/10th of your account size- $2,700.00 and manage it like it's your whole account- That may seem too small- and beneath your level-
but if you trade it successfully, you get to double the account size-
Apply your position sizing to this smaller account value, execute your trades and don't worry about the minor commissions - simply test your results in real time . For Example-
Each trade cannot exceed 10% of the account value- $270.00
Each trade cannot lose more than ( you choose your risk) .5%, 1%, 2% of the total account value-Risk will allow or disallow your entry level or regulate your position size.
Trade this for 1 month, and if you are profitable ,and met your monthly goal (5% min) Double the account funds available. If you do not achieve the 5% minimum, you are not allowed to access more of the account assets. Track your commission costs solely separately. If you are successful, you can double your asset base account.
$5,400.00 and apply the same approach for a month- If you have another positive month,
Double the account value,- $10,800.00 same position sizing rules-
And in Month 4 , you will be almost at 75% of the total account value-
More importantly, you will have applied your approach over a period of months, and developed a track record of your results using real dollars in real changing market conditions.
What will occur over this relatively short period of time is that you will have implemented a trading approach that requires your accountability- and working within a structured approach- and an approach that rewards you with greater access to your account assets only when and if you prove yourself- This is a self-regulation way to gradually
step in softly and then step up your game incrementally.
When we fail in trading ( My hand is raised) it is usually because we fail to follow our guidelines and our "RULES" AND lose sight of a structured approach- Position sizing is the #1 guideline that tells us if we are on our path or we stepped off of it due to our
discretion - (Emotional / Intuition) .
Since you have already experienced "blowing up" one account- and do not want to experience a repeat performance- think and approach differently than you did previously-
Work within a position sizing structure- and do not be in a rush to achieve large gains-
Seek to develop a consistent approach -over time- and many trades.
You have a great second opportunity- Do not rush in just to Prove yourself- Instead- step in softly to prove to yourself- and after you find you are successful- gradually take larger steps - after meeting your expectation goals. And then "prove' to others.
Since 'trading' successfully is your desired career- Imposing a relatively short term period of "testing" - gradually increased exposure based on each month's success makes perfect sense to me as a step by step approach .
While continued monthly success would have you moving from 10% to full account value in less than 6 months- The reality is that it will not be a straight path-
The value in this approach is that during losing periods, you will not be allowed to advance- yet you will have the remaining initial assets once you find your approach is back on track, and you allow yourself to bet with larger position sizing. In the process,you will gain experience in changing markets and discover that what works today does not work tomorrow and you will learn to adapt- and the position sizing strategy will keep you in the game when what worked before fails to work now.
i wish i was writing this from the view of a successful EOD trader- but unfortunately I think i am a good example of allowing impulsive trades to corrupt a would-be disciplined approach- Periods of gains given back to periods of losing....And those more extravagant leveraged plays certainly take their toll once you are on the wrong side of the trade.
More to the point - As both a Father and a grandfather- and a would-be trader-
I wanted to offer you something both constructive and conservative that would keep you trading for the longer term
Good Luck.

 

[Luthfi_maung]

Especially for this, remain neutral to any outcome of your trading is the hardest thing to do even when our shot is the best one. Some still get hyped seeing good outcome of his trading but they could control his emotions when he suffers some (little) losses...

Agree, some traders still having problems with their trading psychology. From their fear to pull the trigger, hyped too much on his first winning or uncontrollable emotions after his first losing...

 

[wrbtrader]

...Another thing to mention, it's seriously about getting positive to me. After I make the first 150 dollars 10 dollars is nothing to make 60. It's really just psychological.

You may be just a typical discretionary trader that has a psychological problem when trading with real money on the line. If such continues, most likely you'll never be able to fix (resolve) this issue.

I highly recommend you get professional help (e.g. psychologist) because its common for traders to have issues like you but the problem isn't related to your trade strategy...its related to you and something occurring or had occurred in your life that's sabotaging your trading results.

Simply, if you have stats that prove your trade method works but you keep screwing it up when you go to real money trading...you may just not be suitable for trading until you discover and resolve what's causing the problem.

Just don't make the mistake of tweaking your trade method as if it can fix your psychological problems if you already know it has a positive expectancy.

This is a big disadvantage for us retail traders that trade our own account regardless to the source of the funds. Its common for retail traders not to have all the ducks lined up prior to taking that first trade sort'uv speak. In contrast, institutional traders (pro traders) usually take a psychological profile test to weed those not ready for trading to prevent hiring them as traders. Further, any employee (trader) that develops problems that begins to impact their performance after being hired...many firms have in house psychologist or they are contracted to one to help employees. In addition, professional traders are salary traders with normal job benefits and bonuses.

Retail traders only get pay when profitable and only if trading is treated like a business (self employed). If trading isn't treated like a business...its just a serious hobby or academic.

In fact, a lot of careers have psychological profiling to help them determine whom to hire and whom not to hire.

In contrast, us retail traders are on our own. We really do not know if we're suitable or not suitable for trading until after the fact. Just as important, due to being alone as traders...we're less likely to seek professional help with our personalities, personal problems that's sabotaging our trading.

Then when things get really bad, we join forums and talk to anonymous people about our psychological problems...people most likely with no professional background in such and people most likely that will give advice related to your trade method instead of related to you as a person.

Many of the world's top athletes, star celebrities (actors/actress), CEOs and others in stressful decision making careers have a psychologist to help them through their careers and help them stay on top.

Just remember most traders do fail and if you want to be one of the few that succeed...you will need help because those that succeed...they have a darn good support network system involved with their trading that's in person (not online).

Yet, if you have unlimited access to trading capital...you may just understand this thing called trading on your own after tons of screen time and painful blowups...assuming the blowups don't do psychological damage.

Good luck.

P.S. As suggested by aquarian1, there may be a psychological issue involving you trading money given to you versus your own hard earned money. For some, its just the opposite...they perform better with money funded by someone instead of trading their own money. You may not be the latter.

P.S.S. Don't forget, you started this thread in the Psychology section. I'm sure there's other things sabotaging your trading that you haven't mentioned. Only you can take that step to get real professional help instead of crossing your finger via anonymous help that's more about your trade method.

 

[schizo]

Don't mean to sound rude, but if the OP is sooooo scared about losing money, I ain't so sure this profession is right for him. Why sweat over something that you dread doing? Instead, go find another job that you actually look forward to doing everyday. Anyway, the key to overcoming OP's problem is to gain confidence and that comes only with consecutive winning trades.

BTW I wouldn't worry about seeing a shrink. Heck, after 20+ years of trading, I still get the jitters once in a while.

 

[d08]

I think all of this psych stuff was well depicted in the movie "American Sniper" which is one of my all-time favs. That guy never got "rattled".

The movie was enjoyable but in reality the guy was a pure psychopath who just enjoyed killing. Not a good example unless you want to work in investment banking, in which case he's the perfect example.

For the OP: This is a numbers game and perfect trades don't matter. You win some and lose some and as long as overall you win more then you're doing well.