Why can't I make money - when I know what do do?

[MohdSalleh]

You have to lose the expectations.

Also all of us come into trading expecting to make millions, buy house on Lake tahoe and bang hot chicks in no time at all.

The sad truth is even traders who "make it" and are consistent and successful, rarely make more than a couple of hundred bucks a day.

Your chances of attaining that kind of dream life is 10X worse than the chance of becoming beethoven/mozart/van goth in this very life.

It is much better to find a real job, than go blind staring at the screen, deal with all the stress and suffer from wrist and back problems later in life.

 

[saliva]

Quote from MohdSalleh:

The sad truth is even traders who "make it" and are consistent and successful, rarely make more than a couple of hundred bucks a day.

You're sadly mistaken. A successful trader that I know consistently makes 5 figures everyday. But the money is never an issue with successful traders. They're more concerned about how it's made. Is it attributed to skill or a mere dumb luck? This is what obviously differentiates between a top brass and a noob.

But then with so much garbage disseminated around here, what's a noob to do but become a sucker in the long run?

 

[naifwonder]

Learning about trading is a unique process, in the sense that the conventional resources are unreliable. If you want to be a doctor, you study the textbooks and attend classes, and through that you become a doctor. If you want to be an architect, you read the books and learn from the teachers, and then you become an architect. We are brought up to believe that books and educators are reliable. However, trading does not follow this convention.

Trading books and educators are nearly all bullshit.. even the stuff that "sounds" good. You can read every trading book at your local book store and chances are you won't get anywhere. You can study with all the mentors out there, and chances are you still won't get anywhere.

If you want to learn about trading, stop trading. Go read some math books. Calculus, statistics, game theory, decision theory, etc etc. At least then you'll stand an honest shot. Are there people out there making money without this stuff? yes. Does that mean you are likely to? absolutely not.

In your current state, trading would be like trying to punch through a 10 foot thick steel wall with your bare knuckles.. you're just going to end up badly bruised. I have personally seen trading significantly harm people's lives. Unless you think you have more knowledge and are smarter than 99% of all other traders, then don't bother trading.

 

[slapshot]

Quote from naifwonder:



If you want to learn about trading, stop trading.

Go read some math books. Calculus, statistics, game theory, decision theory, etc etc.

WTF??? IMO this is some really bad advice. I have learned from hard-won (expensive) experience that reading more books about barely relevant topics is NOT the answer.

And stopping trading is not the answer. Quite the contrary, more practice, more drill, more understanding, more experience is.

Here is the solution that works:

1) stop real money, get a good realistic sim like Ninja

2) pick 3 timeframes, small, medium, large - never deviate from them (i.e. 2,5,10 or 5,15,60 or 30tick,5,15 - whatever combo helps you see both trends and pivot points)

3) strip all indicators off of charts, learn to read price action and to spot trends & reversals

3) define your risk management edge, then practice, practice practice, practice, practice, practice

I can guarantee you if you do this for a full YEAR almost every day for at least an hour or two, you will learn how to be an intraday trader.

If you have the dedication, that is. A person has to love trading for the sake of trading well, not just visions of profits. The year of sim time will prove to you whether or not you are committed.

Simulation works but only if intensely done over a long period of time. The people who claim it doesn't work only did it for a day or a week or a month.

---------------------------

Air Force Pilots spend 100's of hours in simulation before they get near a plane.

Special Forces folks spend thousands of hours drilling/training how to kill people without actually doing it

Martial artists simulate combat every day of their lives

To be a trader, you have to drill, drill, drill past all of the issues that are causing you to fail - so that behaving correctly becomes second nature. (this is if you are not one of the lucky few that is a "natural" most folks are not)

So, again I ask: "What are you willing to do to compete with Pros?"

 

[jalee25]

Quote from ThuNd3r:

Something I forgot to mention...

Turn off your account balance & Profit loss figures when trading. The only time to look at balance is before the session starts to calculate position sizing. Then when trading the only thing you need to focus on is avg fill, avg cost, & quantity of fill. The thing is when you can see your balance even if P/L is off your brain usually will try to calculate exactly how many $ you are up/down relative to past trade which can distract you from executing well on the next trade.

I used to do contrary to the above as well, and worry too much about the green. Just wanted to thank the great posts (w/ exceptions to a few I didn't agree). I've read all the posts in here so far.

Just wanted to comment, Slapshot... 8 years sounds something similar to becoming a doctor.

 

[slapshot]

Quote from jalee25:



Just wanted to comment, Slapshot... 8 years sounds something similar to becoming a doctor.

Sure. Or a really competent engineer. Or an experienced architect. Or to build a business. Or a Black Belt. Or anything else that is worth doing.

The false lure of trading is that it is so easy to hit the 'buy" button - but it takes most of us (that I know of, anyway) a similar length of time that it takes to develop expertise in ANYTHING.

 

[jalee25]

Quote from slapshot:

Sure. Or a really competent engineer.

I agree, Slapshot. Coming from an IT background, I could see where it would be hard to expect you to hit the ground running with your first day on the job. It might take you a year, 5 years, or maybe even 10 years to be consistent and good in this field.

I don't know how long it's going to take me, but I know I'll make it. I first thought I was one of the few that would hit the ground running... but I found out otherwise. With dedication and discipline, hopefully that'll be enough.

 

[jamus]

One thing that helped in my evolution to be a consistently profitable trader was to develop a system that gave me a signal way before my actual trigger, sometimes upto 1 hour before. I found that when I did that I could sit, calm myself and wait until the pennies dropped and were ripe for pick up.

 

[slapshot]

Quote from jamus:

One thing that helped in my evolution to be a consistently profitable trader was to develop a system that gave me a signal way before my actual trigger, sometimes upto 1 hour before. I found that when I did that I could sit, calm myself and wait until the pennies dropped and were ripe for pick up.

OK, a good example of finding a style that suits you. How long did it really take you to arrive at this conclusion?

 

[slapshot]

Quote from jalee25:



With dedication and discipline, hopefully that'll be enough.

If you add "accurate self-appraisal" to the above, then you have a chance.

Without it, a person is only dedicated and disciplined to whatever alibis they create for the mistakes they will be making.

Humans always find a way to justify their errant behavior. Addiction, deviancy, megalomania and other major human failings are massively supported by self-delusion.

Trading mistakes are the same to a lesser degree - as is anything that requires a core thinking shift.