Why can't I make money - when I know what do do?

[FanOfFridays]

Quote from slapshot:

It is coming into year 8 that I am finally just now getting to be a damn good, consistently profitable trader.

good post, slapshot. As you well know, it's sometimes hard to know who's telling the truth on here and who's blowing smoke. I've seen your posts in the past and you've been around for a while. Both things make me tend to think that you're on the level. Your story is a cautionary tale for newbs around here. It's refreshing when all we see are these wankers who claim to be making 100%/month after 6 months of trading.

If you had to pick one thing that you wish, above all else, that you hadn't done in the beginning, what might it be? Fail to papertrade first? Put an indicator on your chart? Start off intraday?

 

[slapshot]

Quote from traderNik:


If you had to pick one thing that you wish, above all else, that you hadn't done in the beginning, what might it be? Fail to papertrade first? Put an indicator on your chart? Start off intraday?

Nik,

Candidly, this is a really tough question. I say this because all of the failure has helped me learn everything I know to be absolutely true now (for me at least). So who knows where I'd be if I had not been through all of the exact same pain, loss and experience?

Like I said, I admit that I am thicker/slower than some folks. I had to lose $100k in order to learn how not to lose $100k. And if I am brutally honest with myself, my pride/ego definitely set me up for multiple falls. You can trust that I am considerably more humble about markets now. (not to be mistaken for lack of confidence)

I suppose if I had to pick one, it would be that I wish I had not overconfidently jumped in with the big size on stock trading right at first. The first big (for me) account wiped out was the hardest in terms of emotional damage. And I was just flailing around with no real method. I should have started out with 50 SPY or even sim trading first to get some kind of clue about trends and risk management.

I don't believe that 95% of traders forever lose money. I believe that only 5% have enough hard-core dedication to really learn how to trade well, and the mental fortitude and resources to pay the price(s) to eventually achieve real profitablilty.

 

[FanOfFridays]

Quote from slapshot:
Candidly, this is a really tough question. I say this because all of the failure has helped me learn everything I know to be absolutely true now (for me at least). So who knows where I'd be if I had not been through all of the exact same pain, loss and experience?

Great point. It's clearly like that in other aspects of life as well.

 

[oraclewizard77]

Looks like some issues I need to still work on is increasing number of contracts after a losing trade, so I would assume this is still revenge trading.

Also, I need to review chart for previous bias and see if trend has actually changed and not trade against strong trend that has strong momentum. Even worse, averaging down into the losing position. Maybe, I should not average up or down for awhile till I am sure if it even helps. Looks like averaging down into a bad trade makes it worse even if it was plan to begin with since I was not able to recognize I was in bad trade.

I need to determine what is current trend, and if it has changed or not before entering in trade.

Once you know market has turned against trade or you realize you made a bad trade, it might be better to get out sooner rather than hoping stop will not get hit.

Need to have at the very least same win distance as loss distance since with a negative win to loss distance ratio, you are just going to get killed due to commissions and win% not being high enough to bail you out.

Don't move stops farther away once they are set, and don't move wins closer unless you notice chart was incorrect to begin with for trade.

6 wins to 3 losses today. Turned trading around at end off day with 3 impressive wins that were in tune with market but ended up with small loss due to above issues of having more contracts for the losing trades and averaging down on the losing trades.

 

[NoDoji]

Quote from oraclewizard77:

and don't move wins closer unless you notice chart was incorrect to begin with for trade.

Hearing it put that way really has an impact. Thank you!

 

[saliva]

Quote from Vespasian:

I think this is the thing bothering me the most.

I'm smart and I have good discipline skills in other parts of my life.

I just don't get why I can't transfer them to trading.

Why do I hear this same crap everywhere? Why can't they ever 'fess up for once: I'M A FUCKING LOSER AND A DAMN PROUD ONE!

Seriously, the shit all these Tony Robbins of the world taught is raising a lot of delusional losers. They're only masking their weaknesses. Just as you have no appreciation for life before you suffer a heart attack, only time a trader learns to become successful is after being pummeled with a huge drawdown.

Think before you speak, damn it!

 

[Susannah]

One thing I've found that helps is to tell myself I can only take what the market gives me. And repeat that, and repeat that if I *ever* find myself "hoping" a trade works out.

It doesn't matter what *you* hope for. Really think you can move the markets?

 

[eagle]

- I'm smart
- My IQ is X (very high)
- ...

Never claim anything like that by ourselves. The effect is just the opposite, somebody who said like that will just make him looked dumb instead. You're only smart when the girls find that you're smart, not the other way around.

Quote from Vespasian:

I'm smart and I have good discipline skills in other parts of my life.

 

[NoDoji]

Quote from saliva:

only time a trader learns to become successful is after being pummeled with a huge drawdown.

Worked for me, but surely there are other ways :eek:

 

[Brandonf]

Quote from Vespasian:

This is truly becoming UNBEARABLE and I am at my wits end.

I've read all the psychology books and I've even had some counseling with a noted trading therapist but it never F ing changes anything.

This really SUCKS !

Should I quit or should I keep at it ?

Just like most trading books, most trading psychology books are shit. Ditto those who proclaim some sort of expert status in the psychology of trading.
Your best bet is to go to a legit psychotheopist and work out your shit. I did that and it was a major turning point in my career, life too.

As far as should you stay or go, only you can decide that of course. You seem to have already invested a lot in this career, both in terms of time and money. If it was me, before I gave it all up and moved on (and there is nothing wrong with doing that if that is what you decide is the best thing for you) i'd make an apointment with a real psychotheorpist and see if they can not help you. Good luck.

Brandon