I can suggest 50 firms. What exactly are you looking for? Everyone on here has different wants and needs.
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Why can no one suggest a real prop firm on this section of the forum
- Thread starter gpstrade
- Start date
I can suggest 50 firms. What exactly are you looking for? Everyone on here has different wants and needs.
Quote from DayTrader10:
The funny thing is....they still cannot suggest a firm because they go off arguing about other shit.
I know a bunch of firms as well - and as I stated earlier, it's an insider's game so they don't want to be listed and I don't know the OP enough (or anyone else) to start listing names.
Have you tried Jane Street, First New York?
There are a LOT of them out there but the reality is you need to either meet them organically or you need to be an insider and get hooked up.
If you want to work at a prop firm (cushy salary) I'd suggest starting out working operations at a big bank (like JPM or BofA or State Street) as a Fund Accountant or Fund Administration (maybe Jr. Operations Analyst) working with groups that deal with funds that trade whatever type of securities you want. I'd recommend JPM - Fund Accounting at JPM was the worst job I've ever had in my entire life but it also opened up doors for me. It was miserable and my wife (girlfriend at the time had to encourage me to show up to work every day - both because we needed the money and because I needed something just to suffer through another day).
From there I'd work 1-2 years, get a promotion and see if you can get a job working back office at a fund or directly with an ETF issuer, etc. Perhaps it'll take 2-4 years at the big bank until you find the right connection.
Once you get to the Fund side of things you are still back-office - a bit like being a bus boy, you are customer facing, it's not quite as bad as washing dishes but your hands are still in the filth. Hang out there for 1-3 years and keep your nose clean. Don't get involved in politics and learn whatever you can - even the shitty things they dump on you will come back to help.
Look for a promotion to get up to Middle Office support (Mind you we are 4ish years into this gig) and keep your nose clean. Work HARD never say no to anything and always deliver 110% on whatever is asked whether it be Starbucks runs or working until 1am on a holiday weekend so your boss can enjoy time with his/her family. Remember your boss will be at home with his/her family monitoring you via blackberry and will also be afraid of his boss finding out that he wasn't at work that day and that you got two levels of shit dumped on you - so you need to be prepared to do your bosses job and his bosses job - with a smile, on a holiday weekend and love it. If your bosses boss never speaks to you then you are doing an excellent job. Keep in mind your boss looks like an idiot if he has to fire you (because he made a bad hiring choice) so that's really what your boss is worried about. Just do the work.
At this point you can start to meet people - counterparties, back office managers & VPs, a few traders, friends, etc. People will start to know that you know your stuff and that you don't let them down. Say nothing except for maybe once every 3-6 months let it slip at the bar or on the phone that if something ever came up you might be interested. Don't EVER put it in email. The E in Email stands for EVIDENCE.
Wait until they come to you.
6-10 years of that shit and I guarantee you'll have a different opinion of "being a trader".
If you are 30+ (or married) you should just ignore finance and make a living somewhere else.
If not have daddy talk to a friend at the country club and start work in a week.
If anyone can find a good firm in Chicago or NYC to get their feet wet, I always tell them to go for it. Work for zero, be a clerk, do anything asked of you at an exchange, a BD, wherever you can find someone to take you under their wing.
Then, sure, go out on your own, put some capital. Or, if they can give you a trading type position, then great. Some prefer a job, some prefer to work for themselves. Do what suits you best.
Don
Then, sure, go out on your own, put some capital. Or, if they can give you a trading type position, then great. Some prefer a job, some prefer to work for themselves. Do what suits you best.
Don
Quote from gpstrade:
you pay these montly fees:
$100 for internet
$100 for charts data
$250 desk fee
.005 commissions
Home internet costs $40,
free charts from your broker,
your home desk is free,
pay the same commissions to your broker.
Desk fee? they put you there to generate commissions, but they charge you the desk fee?
Why don't they charge you electricity fee? Toilet fee? window fee?
If you work in an office, do they charge you a desk fee?
No wash sale rules.
No PDT rules.
No FICA (varies).
No matching of trades.
Mark to Market.
No trading against your broker, actually become part of the market.
Small fee to cover your exchange fees, and data feeds.
Use of capital.
Able to place buys and sell on same stocks (many retail cannot do).
Interaction with other, serious, live traders. Yes, I'm sure some retail do offer "some" of this, but I haven't heard of anything substantial.
No fear of trading same stocks over and over.
But, in all seriousness, pro trading is not for everyone. I have told many, many people to just keep their retail account for their type of trading.
All the best,
Don
No PDT rules.
No FICA (varies).
No matching of trades.
Mark to Market.
No trading against your broker, actually become part of the market.
Small fee to cover your exchange fees, and data feeds.
Use of capital.
Able to place buys and sell on same stocks (many retail cannot do).
Interaction with other, serious, live traders. Yes, I'm sure some retail do offer "some" of this, but I haven't heard of anything substantial.
No fear of trading same stocks over and over.
But, in all seriousness, pro trading is not for everyone. I have told many, many people to just keep their retail account for their type of trading.
All the best,
Don
[/B][/QUOTE]Quote from EvOTraderV2:
1. That's simply not true. Some may have worked for a salary in the past but to state 95% have had a salary in the field they opened businesses in is simply not true. Most people that open businesses do so because they don't want a salary and want to reap the rewards of their labor.
2. I have degrees from two of of the best schools in America. They teach the socialist system. Whether I like it or not, university economics stresses the theories of Keynes and Focuses a lot on Marx. Very VERY FEW teach the Austrian school of economics. It's all about the government spending, here the register cha-ching.
I was not referring to the prop world. I was simply referring to the business world. I blame the education system & our politicians for crushing small business and instilling this mentality that you need to work for a large corporation and receive a salary in order to survive. It's a farce meant to kept you reliant.
I suggest you read some Adam Smith (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/commandingheights/shared/pdf/ess_adamsmithorigin.pdf) or John Stuart Mill (http://www.bartleby.com/130/) to get a better perspective on why dependence destroys freedom. If you want to live free, you can't rely on anyone. Not your school. Not the government. Not your boss. All the aforementioned are in business to profit off you. Someone paying you a salary is doing so to profit off your labor so I can't comprehend how you can even come to that conclusion
Again, people should be discounting your commentary if you profit from running a firm. You don't need to respond to this question unless you want to since it is an anonymous board, but it essentially gives what you originally wrote an agenda, and takes any objectivity out of it.
So are you saying going with a $1500 prop isn't worth it at all? even if your a decent trader?
Quote from beachhouse:
Home internet costs $40,
free charts from your broker,
your home desk is free,
pay the same commissions to your broker.
Desk fee? they put you there to generate commissions, but they charge you the desk fee?
Why don't they charge you electricity fee? Toilet fee? window fee?
If you work in an office, do they charge you a desk fee?
those costs do seem high. About $200-$250 for data,accounting software and a good platform is all you really need. I don't know of anyone who charges a Desk-Fee for occupying space. That seems like an extra fee. Unless you are using RediPlus or another platform with capabilities like access to other securities markets, I don't see an equities/options platform/desk-fee running more than $300 a month.
Quote from JSHTrader:
So are you saying going with a $1500 prop isn't worth it at all? even if your a decent trader?
I think if a firm is offering $1500 deposit, it is a good opportunity to get your feet wet. With the price of other education nowadays, I think participating in the markets can be a good experience but by no means should you expect to make a living off a $1500 deposit. Just think about the return rate that would entail. You would have to yield a 1000% return to earn $15k per year.
If you're new to trading, joining a prop for $1500 and getting some training and level 2 direct market access can give you some experience without breaking the bank.
I always say that you should only trade with RISK CAPITAL which is capital you have left over to lose. Anyone new runs a pretty good chance of losing their capital. 9/10 will. with $1500, there isn't much threshold for loses and you would have to demonstrate discipline / trade very conservatively. It helps a lot if you have a cushion for some loses because you will incur them. Every trader has their down days.
Quote from EvOTraderV2:
I think if a firm is offering $1500 deposit, it is a good opportunity to get your feet wet. With the price of other education nowadays, I think participating in the markets can be a good experience but by no means should you expect to make a living off a $1500 deposit. Just think about the return rate that would entail. You would have to yield a 1000% return to earn $15k per year.
If you're new to trading, joining a prop for $1500 and getting some training and level 2 direct market access can give you some experience without breaking the bank.
I always say that you should only trade with RISK CAPITAL which is capital you have left over to lose. Anyone new runs a pretty good chance of losing their capital. 9/10 will. with $1500, there isn't much threshold for loses and you would have to demonstrate discipline / trade very conservatively. It helps a lot if you have a cushion for some loses because you will incur them. Every trader has their down days.
When you say this, i get confused, because the prop shop I would sign up with requires $1500 depo and then they offer $50K BP... Im a recent college grad and i dont need to support a family and 3 kids... and making just under $40K trading prop my first year would be amazing... plus I'll be bartending at night as the usual cash inflow.
What I guess im trying to say is how in the world can trading be this horrible and negative as people on ET make it out to be.