I'd be glad to send you this book: http://www.amazon.com/Pit-Bull-Less...9569/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1329181836&sr=8-1
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Why can no one suggest a real prop firm on this section of the forum
- Thread starter gpstrade
- Start date
I'd be glad to send you this book: http://www.amazon.com/Pit-Bull-Less...9569/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1329181836&sr=8-1
Quote from LEAPup:
I'd be glad to send you this book: http://www.amazon.com/Pit-Bull-Less...9569/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1329181836&sr=8-1
Only had to leave a blood sample, back in no time, LOL.
That's ok, I have it in my library... about 1997 or so if I remember correctly. I was just showing you things you already know, you're a businessman. Trading is a business, and in the overall picture, much cheaper barrier to entry and overhead than most business ventures.
All the best,
Don
Quote from Don Bright:
A bit harsh my friend. No more so than any other business (OSHA, NLRB, ordinance fees, licensing fees)... carrying this out one step further, no business should ever be started because of start up costs and overhead. Surely you're not saying that. The whole start up process is like a couple of grand, and monthly overhead can be as low as a couple hundred. Try starting any other business with a big upside potential, and the ability to "borrow" a lot of money for free.
Pretty low barrier to entry as compared to virtually any other business that I have started, taken public, kept small, even being a public accountant costs a fortune in overhead and license fees, continuing education etc.
My Professional life in accounting, my personal business ventures from manufacturing to computer stores, all were much more of a headache and more costly than trading, especially these days.
But, as I keep saying, trading is not for everyone. I know you'll be fine when you get going, all this other "stuff" is just that, "stuff."
All the best everyone, still trying to get out of here for my Dr. appt.
Don
I can back "The Don" up on this one. There is no other business that provides as much upside with so little up front cost and over head. Honestly, it's probably a little too easy. I think the bar could be "slightly" higher. Then when you throw in the portability aspect of it, i.e you can do this from anywhere in the world, nothing really beats it.
I think you also have to add in the independence aspect. Being able to hold any firm's feet at the fire because you know there is competition and others willing to give you a good deal for your business. That's what good ol' fashioned Capitalism is about.
Don and I were talking about the n00bs and how they want salaries but don't realize the first thing about doing business in the real world. Sadly, the education system in this country has been a failure and there's a need for dependency. It's a hindrance to potential for the both the individual and the field in general
Don and I were talking about the n00bs and how they want salaries but don't realize the first thing about doing business in the real world. Sadly, the education system in this country has been a failure and there's a need for dependency. It's a hindrance to potential for the both the individual and the field in general
Quote from EvOTraderV2:
I think you also have to add in the independence aspect. Being able to hold any firm's feet at the fire because you know there is competition and others willing to give you a good deal for your business. That's what good ol' fashioned Capitalism is about.
Don and I were talking about the n00bs and how they want salaries but don't realize the first thing about doing business in the real world. Sadly, the education system in this country has been a failure and there's a need for dependency. It's a hindrance to potential for the both the individual and the field in general
I want to make sure I have this right.
Are you suggesting that someone wanting to trade or 'do business in the real world' should not assume by default that they are looking for a salaried position?
That looking for a job and expecting to GET PAID, NOT PAY for the job is due to a failure of the education system?
My opinion is it that the massive failure would be if every college and high school grad were as hopeless and desperate as you suggest they should be so they hit your 5000 deposit requirement bid and sign up.
You appear to be highlighting specific small money down prop firms for newbies in your posts. While your analogy is ridiculous for equating newbies resisting the sales pitch from 5,000 deposit firms to a 'failure' of our american education system, if you are you also profiting from them, youre probably going too far.
Does Don really think this or are you just putting words in his mouth? I tend to think his firm is different than the ones you always suggest by catering to professionals who have been in the work force, not recent college grads freshly in debt, not to mention he has a slightly more realistic capital contribution which filters out a few suckers.
this one caught me, i really cant believe what i read.
You've got it totally wrong. Conducting your business as an independent professional requires taking the risk yourself.
If you want a salaried gig, you generally need it for financial security, not to be successful at you do. Many independent business people who rely on themselves do not need a company to provide a salary in order to conduct their business. How many business owners do you know that are paid based on a salary? Independent trading is no different. You run your own business.
Dependence is a drug. If you don't have the risk capital to trade independently, don't trade. Get a real job. The fact that so many young people are taught the socialist system of dependence and not free-market capitalism is what hinders the nation's competitiveness.
You assume only a failure would put up 5k with a prop firm. Actually, it's more like those that have $5,000 in Risk Capital because they manage their money effectively and are able to take those risks. Anybody looking to deposit 5,000 and make a living off it needs to seriously reconsider risking any capital in the markets.
If you actually believe that $5,000 USD will yield the type of return that any adult can live off, Yes, the school system has failed you. Instead of producing smart entrepreneurs, we have the lazy entitlement mentality where they need a job and need a salary and need health care and need contraception and need a million other things. You have Asian students willing to intern for free and help just for learning and build their way up through experience and apprenticeship and you get Americans and Europeans looking for more free stuff.
Putting up 5k with a prop firm is one thing but most pros don't have 5k up ;-) they've accumulated, saved, and invested more. Now take this idea and apply to manufacturing, education, etc.
If you want a salaried gig, you generally need it for financial security, not to be successful at you do. Many independent business people who rely on themselves do not need a company to provide a salary in order to conduct their business. How many business owners do you know that are paid based on a salary? Independent trading is no different. You run your own business.
Dependence is a drug. If you don't have the risk capital to trade independently, don't trade. Get a real job. The fact that so many young people are taught the socialist system of dependence and not free-market capitalism is what hinders the nation's competitiveness.
You assume only a failure would put up 5k with a prop firm. Actually, it's more like those that have $5,000 in Risk Capital because they manage their money effectively and are able to take those risks. Anybody looking to deposit 5,000 and make a living off it needs to seriously reconsider risking any capital in the markets.
If you actually believe that $5,000 USD will yield the type of return that any adult can live off, Yes, the school system has failed you. Instead of producing smart entrepreneurs, we have the lazy entitlement mentality where they need a job and need a salary and need health care and need contraception and need a million other things. You have Asian students willing to intern for free and help just for learning and build their way up through experience and apprenticeship and you get Americans and Europeans looking for more free stuff.
Putting up 5k with a prop firm is one thing but most pros don't have 5k up ;-) they've accumulated, saved, and invested more. Now take this idea and apply to manufacturing, education, etc.
Quote from SgtSlottter:
I want to make sure I have this right.
Are you suggesting that someone wanting to trade or 'do business in the real world' should not assume by default that they are looking for a salaried position?
That looking for a job and expecting to GET PAID, NOT PAY for the job is due to a failure of the education system?
My opinion is it that the massive failure would be if every college and high school grad were as hopeless and desperate as you suggest they should be so they hit your 5000 deposit requirement bid and sign up.
You appear to be highlighting specific small money down prop firms for newbies in your posts. While your analogy is ridiculous for equating newbies resisting the sales pitch from 5,000 deposit firms to a 'failure' of our american education system, if you are you also profiting from them, youre probably going too far.
Does Don really think this or are you just putting words in his mouth? I tend to think his firm is different than the ones you always suggest by catering to professionals who have been in the work force, not recent college grads freshly in debt, not to mention he has a slightly more realistic capital contribution which filters out a few suckers.
this one caught me, i really cant believe what i read.
Quote from EvOTraderV2:
If you want a salaried gig, you generally need it for financial security, not to be successful at you do. Many independent business people who rely on themselves do not need a company to provide a salary in order to conduct their business. How many business owners do you know that are paid based on a salary? Independent trading is no different. You run your own business.
1. The 'Independent Business people who rely on themselves' didn't rely on themselves their first day of their career. They worked under someone at a company formally for a few or many years before they successfully went off on their own (yes, this doesn't cover 100% of them, but let's say 95%). The others, at minimum, received training while receiving salary (or draw), or had an apprenticeship of some sort. I would say with confidence less than .01% of them paid their first employer - as in anything similar to the 5000 capital contributions you suggest for traders with no prior experience - as opposed to getting paid.
2. Regarding your other quote, schools do not teach the 'socialist system'. If you think this is a problem, you can blame parents or lazy kids, but blame the schools? Where did you come up with this? Is this what you where taught in school? Did your school give everyone the same grade? Did everyone who tried out make the football team there? I'm bewildered.
Again, people should be discounting your commentary if you profit from running a firm. You don't need to respond to this question unless you want to since it is an anonymous board, but it essentially gives what you originally wrote an agenda, and takes any objectivity out of it.
Because you have to know someone to work at those "hire me to trade for you" type firms.
What we have here is a classic case of "if you have to ask you can't afford".
If you have to ask how much my house or car or shoes cost you probably can't afford it. If you have to ask how to get hired by a "real prop firm" you probably don't know anyone who will get you that first interview.
Wall Street is shady like that, there are tons of salary firms out there but you have to know people. Caddy for them in high school... Dad's doctor friend knows someone...
If you have to ask you aren't going to get the job (and trust me it's overrated).
What we have here is a classic case of "if you have to ask you can't afford".
If you have to ask how much my house or car or shoes cost you probably can't afford it. If you have to ask how to get hired by a "real prop firm" you probably don't know anyone who will get you that first interview.
Wall Street is shady like that, there are tons of salary firms out there but you have to know people. Caddy for them in high school... Dad's doctor friend knows someone...
If you have to ask you aren't going to get the job (and trust me it's overrated).
1. That's simply not true. Some may have worked for a salary in the past but to state 95% have had a salary in the field they opened businesses in is simply not true. Most people that open businesses do so because they don't want a salary and want to reap the rewards of their labor.
2. I have degrees from two of of the best schools in America. They teach the socialist system. Whether I like it or not, university economics stresses the theories of Keynes and Focuses a lot on Marx. Very VERY FEW teach the Austrian school of economics. It's all about the government spending, here the register cha-ching.
I was not referring to the prop world. I was simply referring to the business world. I blame the education system & our politicians for crushing small business and instilling this mentality that you need to work for a large corporation and receive a salary in order to survive. It's a farce meant to kept you reliant.
I suggest you read some Adam Smith (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/commandingheights/shared/pdf/ess_adamsmithorigin.pdf) or John Stuart Mill (http://www.bartleby.com/130/) to get a better perspective on why dependence destroys freedom. If you want to live free, you can't rely on anyone. Not your school. Not the government. Not your boss. All the aforementioned are in business to profit off you. Someone paying you a salary is doing so to profit off your labor so I can't comprehend how you can even come to that conclusion
Again, people should be discounting your commentary if you profit from running a firm. You don't need to respond to this question unless you want to since it is an anonymous board, but it essentially gives what you originally wrote an agenda, and takes any objectivity out of it. [/B][/QUOTE]
2. I have degrees from two of of the best schools in America. They teach the socialist system. Whether I like it or not, university economics stresses the theories of Keynes and Focuses a lot on Marx. Very VERY FEW teach the Austrian school of economics. It's all about the government spending, here the register cha-ching.
I was not referring to the prop world. I was simply referring to the business world. I blame the education system & our politicians for crushing small business and instilling this mentality that you need to work for a large corporation and receive a salary in order to survive. It's a farce meant to kept you reliant.
I suggest you read some Adam Smith (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/commandingheights/shared/pdf/ess_adamsmithorigin.pdf) or John Stuart Mill (http://www.bartleby.com/130/) to get a better perspective on why dependence destroys freedom. If you want to live free, you can't rely on anyone. Not your school. Not the government. Not your boss. All the aforementioned are in business to profit off you. Someone paying you a salary is doing so to profit off your labor so I can't comprehend how you can even come to that conclusion
Again, people should be discounting your commentary if you profit from running a firm. You don't need to respond to this question unless you want to since it is an anonymous board, but it essentially gives what you originally wrote an agenda, and takes any objectivity out of it. [/B][/QUOTE]
The funny thing is....they still cannot suggest a firm because they go off arguing about other shit.