Why are living standards in the western world still far ahead of emerging countries?
- Thread starter Debaser82
- Start date
They aren't as far ahead, at least not of the emerging countries that have enacted reforms. We're still as far ahead, or more so, over Zimbabwe, Malawi, N Korea and the like. But places like BRICs, Dubai (even after their slump), Colombia, Botswana, E Europe, SE Asia etc have seen the gap close significantly. People in those countries are now far better off, and have far more opportunities to make an honest living, than was the case 20 or even 10 years ago. Places like Slovenia, Singapore, Taiwan, Ireland etc have pretty much western G7-level living standards now.
The countries that made reasonable market reforms have started to reap the benefits. The ones that haven't, are not seeing positive change on the same level. But overall, in 2010 far more political leaders and electorates in the 3rd and 2nd world accept the idea that markets and rule of law bring wealth, whereas cronyism and hardcore socialism don't. Of course a few fight the tide, like Chavez, Morales, the Iranian regime, Mugabe, Cuba, N Korea etc. They will be consigned to the dustbin of history as a result. In China, even the communists embrace capitalism now.
The countries that made reasonable market reforms have started to reap the benefits. The ones that haven't, are not seeing positive change on the same level. But overall, in 2010 far more political leaders and electorates in the 3rd and 2nd world accept the idea that markets and rule of law bring wealth, whereas cronyism and hardcore socialism don't. Of course a few fight the tide, like Chavez, Morales, the Iranian regime, Mugabe, Cuba, N Korea etc. They will be consigned to the dustbin of history as a result. In China, even the communists embrace capitalism now.
Which is interesting when you consider American history... When we had massive migrations of Italians (essentially later-day Romans), we got a lot more crime... from petty street crime to the mafia. But even today, for many Italian-Americans, the Sopranos-like culture is admired.
So, the question is: once you develop a shitty people and shitty ethics, how long does it take for a culture to free itself of the shittiness that it has built into the ethics of her people?
In other words, will all Americans be crotch-grabbing, wife-beater wearing, Jersey Shore-ites in 1000 years?
I was once standing by a rocky shore at a BBQ/cocktail party. Some people were chatting about how awesome the view was. One guy compares it to his native Greece, where he used to go fishing with his uncle when he was a child (like 40 years or so ago). He says how is uncle was an fabulous octopus fisher. So, I asked, what is the best technique to catch octopus. He says you go out to the rocky areas with a bottle of bleach, find where the octopus is holed up, and pour some bleach around the rocks housing the octopus. He says chlorine is highly toxic to octopus, so it's easy to yank them out of the rocks after they are dead.
So, I said, yeah, but doesn't the bleach kill everything else in the sea too? And, he said, yes, but we didn't think about those things back in the day. So, I asked, well, is there much octopus fishing in Greece nowadays? He says not so much since they had been so successful getting all the octopus with the bleach back when. So, the circle of people all had an awkward laugh, and someone thankfully changed the subject.
this is also why i made the point of values, conditioning at a early age; who does this conditioning, why do they do it? it is because the ones before them continually passing values of little worth on down, never questioned the worth and practicality. so its a vicious cycle, for most i am betting that they are in denial, the teachings of parents vs science/truth readily available on the internet.
the most common conditioning tool, religion, starts at the earlest of ages and is inescapable in the confines of homelife especially.
money would be the next as everything is reduced to the paper and then that paper is worshipped.
pretty close to my point, its just lame and useless values being taught and passed on. it will be tough to last another 100 years at this rate, supposedly weve increased from 1 billion - over 6 billion people in 180 years, with ecological and environmental destruction that we cause to attain what we perceive as comfort.
Homo sapiens has had shitty values for most of its existence. Yet here were are, 10s of thousands of years later, still surviving. Any time you feel like bitching about life, just read some history and thank your lucky stars for your current existence in one of the freest, richest, most meritocratic societies in the history of the known universe.
its not that i am bitching about life. i am saying idiots like you are into self delusion and will do nothing for the future of this planet. lets hear what you have been taught in life that you are thankful for, what you think will become of it. lets not talk about history and say we are lucky because its not that way anymore. lets talk about now and where we are headed. you think you are free? just because you follow a gun large enough that your chances of survival are better than someone elses? "freest, richest, meritocratic society in the history of the known universe." you're a buffoon, easily sold, likely religious and willing to serve. thank you but no thank you, i am not as easy as you are.
You got to be a little clearer when you say something like "Life in India is so much worse than life in the US"
Life for whom?
For the guy at the bottom rung of society, born into poverty, no connections, yes - life is arguably shittier in India from several perspectives : social mobility, material well being, propensity to illness.
For the educated person, it's not entirely clear life in India is so bad. Your paycheck might be smaller in dollar terms, but you have servants, good family network, decent health prospects (the life expectancy at birth of some provinces in India are greater than that of DC).
For the elites, life in India is sweet. You have masses of servants, unbelievable local purchasing power, connections to all the levers in society and a secured position.
You might be better off driving a cab in NYC than driving a cab in New Delhi, or better off working in the shipyard in New Jersey than working in the shipyard in Bombay.
But if you are the manager of a chemical plant, you could be better off in India than in New Jersey - you might be the local grandee with great status.
Life for whom?
For the guy at the bottom rung of society, born into poverty, no connections, yes - life is arguably shittier in India from several perspectives : social mobility, material well being, propensity to illness.
For the educated person, it's not entirely clear life in India is so bad. Your paycheck might be smaller in dollar terms, but you have servants, good family network, decent health prospects (the life expectancy at birth of some provinces in India are greater than that of DC).
For the elites, life in India is sweet. You have masses of servants, unbelievable local purchasing power, connections to all the levers in society and a secured position.
You might be better off driving a cab in NYC than driving a cab in New Delhi, or better off working in the shipyard in New Jersey than working in the shipyard in Bombay.
But if you are the manager of a chemical plant, you could be better off in India than in New Jersey - you might be the local grandee with great status.
