I guess you did not look under water in MED. Read my lips : NO FISH! It is not little fish like 90% less from the peak. In most remote places. All empty. So sad. People that used to live from fishing cannot any more. Now I guess they term them as criminals. Or maybe property boom keeping them from turning to one - for now...
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Why are living standards in the western world still far ahead of emerging countries?
- Thread starter Debaser82
- Start date
I guess you did not look under water in MED. Read my lips : NO FISH! It is not little fish like 90% less from the peak. In most remote places. All empty. So sad. People that used to live from fishing cannot any more. Now I guess they term them as criminals. Or maybe property boom keeping them from turning to one - for now...
When someone is getting mugged in the street and I see two individuals dressed in official looking police uniform, I can assume they'll be able to help.
I guess in your world you would accuse me of profiling? In your world I should disregard common sense cues and randomly begin the process to get help to the victim?
You forget one key point. The immigrants coming here are probably superior to the ones left behind. They probably have superior financial means, or a superior intelligence to be admitted to graduate college here on financial aid.
Bottom line. Immigrants are always the best and the brightest of the lot. Unless they are refugees or illegal immigrants. Then we're back to the shitty people theory because 90% or more of refugees end up on the public dole. And their kids end up engaging in all types of criminal behavior.
My shitty people theory still stands.
A corollary to my shitty people theory:
Most of these shitty people, in these shitty countries, are also religious bigots.
It can also be in the west. Look in the deep south. Never saw a more sorry bunch of neanderthals anywhere else. Even the shitty Romanian street gypsy has better sense than a southern shitty bigot.
I guess in your world you would accuse me of profiling? In your world I should disregard common sense cues and randomly begin the process to get help to the victim?
You forget one key point. The immigrants coming here are probably superior to the ones left behind. They probably have superior financial means, or a superior intelligence to be admitted to graduate college here on financial aid.
Bottom line. Immigrants are always the best and the brightest of the lot. Unless they are refugees or illegal immigrants. Then we're back to the shitty people theory because 90% or more of refugees end up on the public dole. And their kids end up engaging in all types of criminal behavior.
My shitty people theory still stands.
A corollary to my shitty people theory:
Most of these shitty people, in these shitty countries, are also religious bigots.
It can also be in the west. Look in the deep south. Never saw a more sorry bunch of neanderthals anywhere else. Even the shitty Romanian street gypsy has better sense than a southern shitty bigot.
Quote from Misthos:
I think a society's surplus has a lot to do with it. When Indians, Pakistanis, Vietnamese, etc... come here, they attain very high levels in society.
Those societies in Asia most resemble the US in the turn of the century, between the Guilded Age and the Progressive era. If you know anything about that period - the tenements, the pollution, the crime, the company towns that paid people not in dollars, but in company coupons, redeemable - guess where? The company store... well, you begin to realize it's much more complicated than your simplistic western centric view.
And guess what? With globalization, those countries are rising. And with global wage arbitrage, and bigger markets for finite resources, well, let's just say that water reaches it's own level eventually and we'll all be a little bit prosperous and a little (or a lot) shitty at the same time.
Take away the wealth surplus from any society, especially the distribution of wealth, and the morals adjust accordingly.
Hope this view doesn't conflict with your superior race theory.
The Indo-European Aryan ancestors in India also live on dirt floors.
So much for your biblical nonesense.
Didn't anyone tell you the Old testament is a fairy tale based on Sumerian and Persian mythology?
The Jews needed something to believe in when the Babylonians were shoving sticks up their ass. And as the Black slaves of the South, the oppressed will always take the religion of the Oppressor. The fact Jews hate Persians is a hilarity, given the Persians are the ones who are the only ones in history to give the jews everything they wanted.
You should study the background of Purim to get a better idea.
So much for your biblical nonesense.
Didn't anyone tell you the Old testament is a fairy tale based on Sumerian and Persian mythology?
The Jews needed something to believe in when the Babylonians were shoving sticks up their ass. And as the Black slaves of the South, the oppressed will always take the religion of the Oppressor. The fact Jews hate Persians is a hilarity, given the Persians are the ones who are the only ones in history to give the jews everything they wanted.
You should study the background of Purim to get a better idea.
Quote from maxpi:
Yes.. The Ottoman Empire was said to have Law and Order but never in the same place and time.
You can look at the three branches of humanity in Genesis after the Flood. It says "Japtheth will prosper".. That's the Indo-Europeans, they have 401k's, cars, roads, banks, etc... Hamites are Africans and Orientals, they pretty much have dirt floors... Shemites are in the middle east and via the conquest of Spain are in South America and Central America mixed with Indians who are Hamites... again, lots of dirt floors...
Quote from Debaser82:
So what's keeping them from catching up?
Nothing.
Which is probably why they are, in fact, catching up at a furious pace. About another 30 years and the world is going to look a whole lot more egalitarian than it does now.
(Unless we do something incredibly stupid to mess things up)
Most of the argument here "that the poorer countries are doing badly in some sense or another" appears to be based on a world view that is 30 years out of date.
If you want an update you might look at this ted talk which was given to the US State department in an attempt to upgrade their datasets.
http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/hans_rosling_at_state.html
If you want an update you might look at this ted talk which was given to the US State department in an attempt to upgrade their datasets.
http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/hans_rosling_at_state.html
Quote from jem:
I am serious about the rule of law thing.
Compare what it was like as a citizen in the U.S. or England to do business vs. what it was like in China or Saudi Arabia or Mexico.
What happened if you got ripped off by a government official or big company.
What were you chances of getting redress in a court.
I realize that as a lawyer I am exposed to potentially biased studies about the importance of the rule of law.
But, when you strip out all the differences you have a choice about why the west dominated the last few hundred years.
You have a choice.
Rule of Law
Christian values
Christian work ethic
or all of the above.
Most P.C. people wind up choosing rule of law.
I went to law school too. But you neglect wealth surplus and how it is attained.
Let's look at England. Great rule of law for centuries, admired by many. At the same time, she was the biggest thief on the planet for the longest time. She had a rule of law for her people and corporations - yet ruled the world as she wished to maintain a wealth surplus.
I believe that the rule of law is a reflection of morality. The more wealth surplus a society has, the better morality it can afford, and that is reflected in BOTH it's laws and it's adherence to those laws.
Are you familar with Jared Diamond's Germs Guns and Steel? That too plays a large role. The Christian thing is hogwosh because there are many societies past and present that had a rule of law without Christian roots. Again, you, as do others, project your contemporary views on mankinds existence. Ethnocentrism clouds judgement. Don't believe your own press.
I look at Legal Realism - I think you ascribe to Natural Law - rootd in some divine source.
Sorry Misthos, you did not answer the question. To quote the "Borg" - resistance is futile! jem has logic on his side here - you have resorted to ad hominem - not logic!
-gastropod
Quote from fkbsuhites:
You forget one key point. The immigrants coming here are probably superior to the ones left behind. They probably have superior financial means, or a superior intelligence to be admitted to graduate college here on financial aid.
Bottom line. Immigrants are always the best and the brightest of the lot. Unless they are refugees or illegal immigrants. Then we're back to the shitty people theory because 90% or more of refugees end up on the public dole. And their kids end up engaging in all types of criminal behavior.
My shitty people theory still stands.
A corollary to my shitty people theory:
Most of these shitty people, in these shitty countries, are also religious bigots.
It can also be in the west. Look in the deep south. Never saw a more sorry bunch of neanderthals anywhere else. Even the shitty Romanian street gypsy has better sense than a southern shitty bigot.
The talented emigrate because they made a choice. These were their choices:
1) stay and fight the powers that be and create a better, lawful society - like the US founding fathers.
or
2) get the fuck out and go to a society that's already at that lawful, meritocratic level.
And why do I say this? My parents are immigrants. I have seen this firsthand. Villagers to millionaires.
You're still wrong.
ps - as for US southerners, my theory works on them too. And by the way, our lawful, meritocratic level of society is waning. But it is growing elsewhere. Back to my ebb and flow theory.
Quote from gastropod:
Sorry Misthos, you did not answer the question. To quote the "Borg" - resistance is futile! jem has logic on his side here - you have resorted to ad hominem - not logic!
-gastropod
There are two ways to view humanity. The snapshot approach, and the movie approach - from beginning to end.
If I were an alien and I landed on this planet for a brief visit and casually looked around, I would likely agree with jem.
But if I "watched" civilizations come and go on this planet, and I watched wealth and societies ebb and flow thru time - and how those societies interacted with others - thru-out the planet, my conclusion is more compelling. It is logical.
Quote from Misthos:
There are two ways to view humanity. The snapshot approach, and the movie approach - from beginning to end.
If I were an alien and I landed on this planet for a brief visit and casually looked around, I would likely agree with jem.
But if I "watched" civilizations come and go on this planet, and I watched wealth and societies ebb and flow thru time - and how those societies interacted with others - thru-out the planet, my conclusion is more compelling. It is logical.
You might like Tytler's view...
http://www.causeofliberty.com/2008/01/the-end-of-the-republic/
Quote from gastropod:
You might like Tytler's view...
http://www.causeofliberty.com/2008/01/the-end-of-the-republic/
good read - thanks