Why are living standards in the western world still far ahead of emerging countries?

[jem]

I am serious about the rule of law thing.

Compare what it was like as a citizen in the U.S. or England to do business vs. what it was like in China or Saudi Arabia or Mexico.

What happened if you got ripped off by a government official or big company.

What were you chances of getting redress in a court.

I realize that as a lawyer I am exposed to potentially biased studies about the importance of the rule of law.

But, when you strip out all the differences you have a choice about why the west dominated the last few hundred years.

You have a choice.

Rule of Law
Christian values
Christian work ethic
or all of the above.

Most P.C. people wind up choosing rule of law.

 

[Debaser82]

Quote from jem:

I am serious about the rule of law thing.

Ofcourse, hence the reason for instance why the western world has nothing to gain by allowing commodity basket of the world Africa to install any form of rule of law as it would damage most of our interests there.


If you follow that way of thinking strict you could say the US would be better of in the long run allowing the banks to collapse and send them through bankruptcy court then propping them up as they did but then again that would kick of Great Depression nr 2 and now why would anyone would be in favor of that?

 

[Misthos]

Quote from jem:

I am serious about the rule of law thing.

Compare what it was like as a citizen in the U.S. or England to do business vs. what it was like in China or Saudi Arabia or Mexico.

What happened if you got ripped off by a government official or big company.

What were you chances of getting redress in a court.

I realize that as a lawyer I am exposed to potentially biased studies about the importance of the rule of law.

But, when you strip out all the differences you have a choice about why the west dominated the last few hundred years.

You have a choice.

Rule of Law
Christian values
Christian work ethic
or all of the above.

Most P.C. people wind up choosing rule of law.

I went to law school too. But you neglect wealth surplus and how it is attained.

Let's look at England. Great rule of law for centuries, admired by many. At the same time, she was the biggest thief on the planet for the longest time. She had a rule of law for her people and corporations - yet ruled the world as she wished to maintain a wealth surplus.

I believe that the rule of law is a reflection of morality. The more wealth surplus a society has, the better morality it can afford, and that is reflected in BOTH it's laws and it's adherence to those laws.

Are you familar with Jared Diamond's Germs Guns and Steel? That too plays a large role. The Christian thing is hogwosh because there are many societies past and present that had a rule of law without Christian roots. Again, you, as do others, project your contemporary views on mankinds existence. Ethnocentrism clouds judgement. Don't believe your own press.

I look at Legal Realism - I think you ascribe to Natural Law - rootd in some divine source.

 

[screenstruck]

+1
lets tell the filipinos that their christian values need them to rise above others

Quote from Misthos:

I went to law school too. But you neglect wealth surplus and how it is attained.

Let's look at England. Great rule of law for centuries, admired by many. At the same time, she was the biggest thief on the planet for the longest time. She had a rule of law for her people and corporations - yet ruled the world as she wished to maintain a wealth surplus.

I believe that the rule of law is a reflection of morality. The more wealth surplus a society has, the better morality it can afford, and that is reflected in BOTH it's laws and it's adherence to those laws.

Are you familar with Jared Diamond's Germs Guns and Steel? That too plays a large role. The Christian thing is hogwosh because there are many societies past and present that had a rule of law without Christian roots. Again, you, as do others, project your contemporary views on mankinds existence. Ethnocentrism clouds judgement. Don't believe your own press.

I look at Legal Realism - I think you ascribe to Natural Law - rootd in some divine source.

 

[adadadog]

Un-convertional Wisdom:

Culture, Political systems, History, all other conventional wisdom are accidental , what made difference:
1. Human-made standing structures, houses, buildings, roads, bridges, etc are prime assets. They last longer, hundreds of years, in temperate regions, that include most of, if not all of advanced countries. While in hot, poor places, those standing structure are easily decayed, oxidized by hot temperature, rain.
2. Hot places have more germs, people are more subject to diseases, less longevity, less productive years, more overhead in raising a productive labor.
3. Easier access to sea, Europe is like a octopus, more cost line easy access to sea
navigation when it was primary means of shipping goods and raw material.
4. Europe is half distance to virgin rich America continent than the counter part Asia, so first to take advance of it.
5. Because of above, Europeans had more surplus resources, more spare time to invent. Industrial revolution, information revolution started there.
6. Monopolistic pricing of goods and technology because of the innovation.
7. Manipulation of financial systems, such as dollar peg, to milk out more profit at ease.
8. It is getting harder to do above, as the advantages are fading away.

 

[Debaser82]

Quote from adadadog:

Un-convertional Wisdom:

Culture, Political systems, History, all other conventional wisdom are accidental , what made difference:
1. Human-made standing structures, houses, buildings, roads, bridges, etc are prime assets. They last longer, hundreds of years, in temperate regions, that include most of, if not all of advanced countries. While in hot, poor places, those standing structure are easily decayed, oxidized by hot temperature, rain.
2. Hot places have more germs, people are more subject to diseases, less longevity, less productive years, more overhead in raising a productive labor.
3. Easier access to sea, Europe is like a octopus, more cost line easy access to sea
navigation when it was primary means of shipping goods and raw material.
4. Europe is half distance to virgin rich America continent than the counter part Asia, so first to take advance of it.
5. Because of above, Europeans had more surplus resources, more spare time to invent. Industrial revolution, information revolution started there.
6. Monopolistic pricing of goods and technology because of the innovation.
7. Manipulation of financial systems, such as dollar peg, to milk out more profit at ease.
8. It is getting harder to do above, as the advantages are fading away.

Thanks, very insightfull.

 

[maxpi]

Quote from Debaser82:

I agree on most of your analysis and other coments made in this topic on why the western world is on a slippery slope.

I just find it intriguing why people can name a thousand reasons why things are bad but they can barely name one reason why it is even worse elsewhere.

I take it the foundation providing the western world a higher standard of living these past decades has elements of politics, social progress, luck, geographical advantages and resource richness among many others to it but I would like to gain insights on those elements and which ones have been the most responsible for the relative advantage compared to many other places around the world.

Hence the topic.

I live in California and right next door is Mexico... Mexico has the natural resources that the US does, probably a lot more really... they have the Sonoran Desert where it gets to 140 degrees. They could supply at the very least, their entire country with very cheap electricity. But they are a lawless shithole where you can't even drink the water... It's about the people and their own decisions to be barbaric or to understand what cooperation brings.. some people have it, some don't. Expecting much to change is silly...

 

[limitdown]

Quote from maxpi:

I live in California and right next door is Mexico... Mexico has the natural resources that the US does, probably a lot more really... they have the Sonoran Desert where it gets to 140 degrees. They could supply at the very least, their entire country with very cheap electricity. But they are a lawless shithole where you can't even drink the water... It's about the people and their own decisions to be barbaric or to understand what cooperation brings.. some people have it, some don't. Expecting much to change is silly...

western countries and history both european and american and canadian are for the most part decendants from both Greece and Roman models of government. ok, not going to debate that very broad swath of history, as it leaves out some of the more colorful countries (France, Germany, others, etc.)

modern western countries, each some 200+, 300+, 400+ years of building streets, buildings, factories and industries were not born standing upright, as these overly simplistic conclusions mentioned in this thread. the premise of superiority of one group over another does nothing to take into account the mistakes of history, which produced the plagues of the 19th and 20th centuries, due to unsanitary conditions... or other historical disasters...

current modern standards of living are products of refinement and improvements derived over centuries...

current modern standards of living are also products of competing cultures within the umbrella of one nation or another. when the immigrants came by shiploads to the US c/o Ellis Island, they were discriminated against here worse than in their origin countries, but the essential result is what you see in our standards of living, at least in the US.

it was not easy getting to where we are at, nor was it fare.

when considering why other countries have not raised their standards of living, consider what they have not gone through that these so called higher, superior or more established western countries have, which made them what they are...

perhaps there in lies a serious business opportunity....

hmmm

now that's traders talk 101

 

[MaklodaSux]

There are still plenty of great places to live in Europe, Canada, Australia..

Far ahead in the short term maybe?

Even at that who cares how we stack up against anybody. So you're just going to roll over and take it and not question any of your governments actions?

 

[426653478]

Quote from Carbonator:

Let me guess... You're Russian, right? Only a Russian would refer to freedom as having the "best girls" and "security." Either you're a Russian or you're a Pakistani.

I referred to each separately, where did I say freedom is having security and girls, I said americans always talk about freedom because that is the thing they dont have, but money can buy freedom, anyhow if you want to look at it that way then don't forget freedom as buying the shit face politicians, because they are the real whores, they can open more rabbit holes than a whore cunt can