Who's an Optionetics Grad?
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I went to an Optionetics intro presentation. The guy made it a point to "hold questions for the end".
Then he proceded talk for 2 hours straight "without taking a breath", if you know what I mean. I'm sure this impressed the noobs as "these guys REALLY know what they're talking about".
On the one hand the presenter was scary slick. On the other, I could just envision all the "bend over, grease up" that was about to follow.
Then he proceded talk for 2 hours straight "without taking a breath", if you know what I mean. I'm sure this impressed the noobs as "these guys REALLY know what they're talking about".
On the one hand the presenter was scary slick. On the other, I could just envision all the "bend over, grease up" that was about to follow.
I went to the weekend seminar but walked out before I had hit the payment deadline. They absolutely taught nothing of value during that timeto someone with even a basic options understanding. Just barely got to the graphs for what a call or a put looked like.
The guy up front was very slick. Talked trading but I suspected he really did not have all that much experience with real trading to make money. (Just a feelling no proof.) Back when I saw him I was a real trader who put on dozens of trades a day and making a good living and the guy giving the seminar just did not quite seem to be on top of things.
My conclusion was buy georges option book from wiley press. Get a few of the books every options guy agrees are important like the one by cottle (which I do not have) and the natenburg and mcmillian books (which I do have) And use the tuition money to put on few delta neutral trades of your own and see if you can adjust them or whatever to make money.
If you have more money than time perhaps you may want to throw some money Georges Way because I do think you will get the basics but making money is much tougher than he lets you think.
But I would start a journal here put on a few delta neutral trades and learn from riskarb and others about the real trades.
The guy up front was very slick. Talked trading but I suspected he really did not have all that much experience with real trading to make money. (Just a feelling no proof.) Back when I saw him I was a real trader who put on dozens of trades a day and making a good living and the guy giving the seminar just did not quite seem to be on top of things.
My conclusion was buy georges option book from wiley press. Get a few of the books every options guy agrees are important like the one by cottle (which I do not have) and the natenburg and mcmillian books (which I do have) And use the tuition money to put on few delta neutral trades of your own and see if you can adjust them or whatever to make money.
If you have more money than time perhaps you may want to throw some money Georges Way because I do think you will get the basics but making money is much tougher than he lets you think.
But I would start a journal here put on a few delta neutral trades and learn from riskarb and others about the real trades.
Optionetics is pure snake oil... I went to a presentation and the dildo at one stage said that he was very experienced, but at another point said that he was "experimenting with a new and exciting strategy called the butterfly"...
Buy a couple of books from Amazon... you will learn more and save several thousand $$$....
Buy a couple of books from Amazon... you will learn more and save several thousand $$$....
Help Please....
I've been to the Optionetics intro and walked away like most of you...more slick sales (20-30 hands went up agreeing to the 2 day seminar...at $3K a pop; go figure!)
In fact, they sealed their fate with me when I saw them in the middle of the night on an Infomercial!!!!
H-O-W-E-V-E-R....I also trialed their website software "optionetics Platinum". I thought it was cool and very good. All data right there, no separate downloads for data and program. All inclusive with easy to navigate functionality. Risk graphs, historical data, scanners, etc.
Anybody else try this and dislike or like?? I'm hoping that the seminar people are different from the website people.
Please give me your thoughts on platinum vs. others. Thanks!!
I've been to the Optionetics intro and walked away like most of you...more slick sales (20-30 hands went up agreeing to the 2 day seminar...at $3K a pop; go figure!)
In fact, they sealed their fate with me when I saw them in the middle of the night on an Infomercial!!!!
H-O-W-E-V-E-R....I also trialed their website software "optionetics Platinum". I thought it was cool and very good. All data right there, no separate downloads for data and program. All inclusive with easy to navigate functionality. Risk graphs, historical data, scanners, etc.
Anybody else try this and dislike or like?? I'm hoping that the seminar people are different from the website people.
Please give me your thoughts on platinum vs. others. Thanks!!
Here is a cheaper probably as effective path than dropping k's in useless seminars.
1. Read the basic option books by Natenburg, Mcmillan WHILE charting what they teach in the books in a software package. Nothing beats hands on whle learning the theoreticals. For packages try optionstar ($300?) or even better hoadley ($45) if you are exel fluent.
2. Open an account around 5k with IB and put on 1 lots!
Journal your greek exposure trade in, chart your Pnl, journal your greek exposure trade out. See how your pnl changes thru vol and time passage.
3. Find out what works for YOU! Are you comfy being short gamma, long gamma, directional or neutral trading? This is the most impt thing which no seminar can teach you.Even if you lose 1-3K doing 1 lots, it would be far more informative than some guy telling you tall trading tales, spread examples,etc and you will be miles ahead.
1. Read the basic option books by Natenburg, Mcmillan WHILE charting what they teach in the books in a software package. Nothing beats hands on whle learning the theoreticals. For packages try optionstar ($300?) or even better hoadley ($45) if you are exel fluent.
2. Open an account around 5k with IB and put on 1 lots!
Journal your greek exposure trade in, chart your Pnl, journal your greek exposure trade out. See how your pnl changes thru vol and time passage.
3. Find out what works for YOU! Are you comfy being short gamma, long gamma, directional or neutral trading? This is the most impt thing which no seminar can teach you.Even if you lose 1-3K doing 1 lots, it would be far more informative than some guy telling you tall trading tales, spread examples,etc and you will be miles ahead.
He's said it before, and it's well repeated...his advice is spot on for most novice traders, and I followed a similar path.
If you use the ET search function and enter the term "George Fontanills", you'll find plenty of insight into the Optionetics sales model. (These guys are appearing here in Hong Kong this weekend...might go along for the entertainment
)
If you use the ET search function and enter the term "George Fontanills", you'll find plenty of insight into the Optionetics sales model. (These guys are appearing here in Hong Kong this weekend...might go along for the entertainment
)Actually, my experience with Optionetics is fairly strange.
I have a rich friend, went to the Optionetics Seminar, (coughed up $3K!!) ouch.. He didn't understand it. So they said there was a "free repeat" of the course.. So he did that again, and still didn't understand it. So they gave him a huge manual and a set of 19 tapes, and sent him on his way.
So guess who got the manual and tapes? Me!
Let's see, I drove from LA to Seattle, and the 19 tapes provided great listening... (good intro). But as I didn't have any background, it was difficult. Then I took a cross country tour in my car by myself. "LA--> Texas --> Tennessee --> Chicago --> Portland --> San Francisco --> LA --> San Diego --> LA. (And all in 2 weeks by myself!!!) And I listened to those tapes at least 8 times..
Then I started to do my own homework, and found that most of them didn't know squat..
I did however try Optionetics Platinum and that was great.. but too expensive for something I can do in excel.
Also, all the theories in software won't help you if you aren't clear in the head.
I've also noticed these guys didn't know any calculus and so they have no clue the relationships between the greeks.
I am doing extensive research on the concept of Delta Neutrality and presentation they give of it is severly lacking. They promised "we will teach you all that you nee to know" but it's just BS.
I'm a bit miffed but I can't complain since I didn't pay a dime. I do have George's book, which is good reference, but there are quite a few mistakes and "dangerous recommendations".
I've lost a lot of money on his teachings, and so I just wanted to give others a heads up..
I wouldn't put them in the snakeoil catagory, but I'd definitely put them in the Microsoft: 99% marketing 1% substance catagory.
I have a rich friend, went to the Optionetics Seminar, (coughed up $3K!!) ouch.. He didn't understand it. So they said there was a "free repeat" of the course.. So he did that again, and still didn't understand it. So they gave him a huge manual and a set of 19 tapes, and sent him on his way.
So guess who got the manual and tapes? Me!
Let's see, I drove from LA to Seattle, and the 19 tapes provided great listening... (good intro). But as I didn't have any background, it was difficult. Then I took a cross country tour in my car by myself. "LA--> Texas --> Tennessee --> Chicago --> Portland --> San Francisco --> LA --> San Diego --> LA. (And all in 2 weeks by myself!!!) And I listened to those tapes at least 8 times..
Then I started to do my own homework, and found that most of them didn't know squat..
I did however try Optionetics Platinum and that was great.. but too expensive for something I can do in excel.
Also, all the theories in software won't help you if you aren't clear in the head.
I've also noticed these guys didn't know any calculus and so they have no clue the relationships between the greeks.
I am doing extensive research on the concept of Delta Neutrality and presentation they give of it is severly lacking. They promised "we will teach you all that you nee to know" but it's just BS.
I'm a bit miffed but I can't complain since I didn't pay a dime. I do have George's book, which is good reference, but there are quite a few mistakes and "dangerous recommendations".
I've lost a lot of money on his teachings, and so I just wanted to give others a heads up..
I wouldn't put them in the snakeoil catagory, but I'd definitely put them in the Microsoft: 99% marketing 1% substance catagory.