Who's an Optionetics Grad?

[dunleggin]

I trust your rich friend who donated the tapes will be recouping his wasted investment when you get to trade his money...

"Options plain & simple", authored by Lenny Jordan in 2000 who at that time was an options trader at LIFFE and formerly of CBOT, is the recommended first reading material for new recruits at one of London's larger prop shops (if they survive they move on to Natenberg's...). Good balance between necessary and useable theory, sensible strategies related to realistic market situations, and speaks to the reader like a mentoring trader.

Don't get too fixated on the calculus. None other than Derman ended his GS career saying that a good trader always beat a good model, and a basic model was frequently better than a complex one.

Good luck!

 

[Sahmi]

Quote from GATrader:

Here is a cheaper probably as effective path than dropping k's in useless seminars.

1. Read the basic option books by Natenburg, Mcmillan WHILE charting what they teach in the books in a software package. Nothing beats hands on whle learning the theoreticals. For packages try optionstar ($300?) or even better hoadley ($45) if you are exel fluent.

2. Open an account around 5k with IB and put on 1 lots!
Journal your greek exposure trade in, chart your Pnl, journal your greek exposure trade out. See how your pnl changes thru vol and time passage.

3. Find out what works for YOU! Are you comfy being short gamma, long gamma, directional or neutral trading? This is the most impt thing which no seminar can teach you.Even if you lose 1-3K doing 1 lots, it would be far more informative than some guy telling you tall trading tales, spread examples,etc and you will be miles ahead.

Exelent advice!
Very good!!

 

[twoblink]

The book "The Way to Trade" by John Piper was excellent. I learned nothing about trading methology that was remotely useful; BUT he did convince me that I have to trade to my risk level and personality, and that advice along was worth the money.

I agree, trade to your personality.

As far as calculus; I'm not too concerned about it, but I think not being overly concerned vs. having no clue is a big one. I don't sit and crank out gamma equations, but when I don't know the relations between the underlining and the delta and the gamma, I MIGHT be a good trader, but the probability is low and I will never be a great trader...

 

[Samson77]

I just got off the phone with Optionetics because they are having an upcoming seminar here in Toronto and I was intrigued by the 100% money back guarantee.

If after 6 months and 36 trades minimum you do not make 3 times your money.(9K) They will give you your 3k back.

If after the first 6 hours of the first day you would like to leave full money back.

That seems fair to me !

They also allow you to repeat as many seminars as you like and the lady on the phone told me that 80% of the students in the seminars are repeats.

I am very skeptical and cautious of this stuff as I have been burned SEVERAL times in the past but this seems fair to me.

I also noticed that all the comments on this thread so far are from people who have not attended or completed the seminar.

Are there any REAL students that would comment on this thread ?

 

[GATrader]

A better ? would be to ask that lady if she can provide you with 3 people who have taken the course and got their $ back. As a business, I'd be proud to provide that since it shows that they are true to their word.

 

[traderob]

Quote from Samson77:

I just got off the phone with Optionetics because they are having an upcoming seminar here in Toronto and I was intrigued by the 100% money back guarantee.

Samson I bought the package - looked at some of the videos - and walked out in the first hour. They gave me my money back no problem at all.

 

[Samson77]

Quote from roberk:

Samson I bought the package - looked at some of the videos - and walked out in the first hour. They gave me my money back no problem at all.

Roberk thanks

Why specifically didn't you stay ?


GATrader
Elite Member

Registered: Oct 2001
Posts: 856


07-14-04 11:51 AM
better question
A better ? would be to ask that lady if she can provide you with 3 people who have taken the course and got their $ back. As a business, I'd be proud to provide that since it shows that they are true to their word.


Gatrader ... I asked that question and she told me " rather then her giving me a bunch of hand selected referrals, it would be much better for me to go to the first day and ask the students myself in person" that seemed really intelligent and fair to me as I could still get my money back at that time.

 

[pisspotpete]

Quote from Samson77:

I just got off the phone with Optionetics because they are having an upcoming seminar here in Toronto and I was intrigued by the 100% money back guarantee.

If after 6 months and 36 trades minimum you do not make 3 times your money.(9K) They will give you your 3k back.

If after the first 6 hours of the first day you would like to leave full money back.

That seems fair to me !

They also allow you to repeat as many seminars as you like and the lady on the phone told me that 80% of the students in the seminars are repeats.

I am very skeptical and cautious of this stuff as I have been burned SEVERAL times in the past but this seems fair to me.

I also noticed that all the comments on this thread so far are from people who have not attended or completed the seminar.

Are there any REAL students that would comment on this thread ?

Samson, I can't say you will get nothing out of the course, but I've read Fontenill's (sp?) books and spent a lot of time browsing the site and reading the articles and I can almost guarantee there won't be anything in the course that isn't already available much cheaper from GF's, or Larry Mac's, or Cottle's, or other's books.

Some may need the "accountability" of having an instructor and maybe the motivation to learn more because you shelled out big money, and that's alright, but there just are NO hidden secrets to option success that these guys will tell you! Oh, they've put strategies in their "sound bite" terms for the inexperienced, like their "vacation trade" (backspread) and stuff like that. But the best idea is to read a bunch and post here what trade you want to do with all the specifics of the underlying, strikes and months, etc. There are plenty of sharp option traders to help you see the R/R and probability of the trade.

It will take years and lots of trades before you develop your own style of option trading success. And even then you are fighting a terrible vig on each and every trade. If stock trading success is hard, and futures harder, then option trading success is orders-of-magnitude harder yet. JMHO. Good trading to all.

 

[kny3]

Samson,

re: ... I asked that question and she told me " rather then her giving me a bunch of hand selected referrals, it would be much better for me to go to the first day and ask the students myself in person" that seemed really intelligent and fair to me as I could still get my money back at that time.


Would this be a fair sample? The only people at the seminar are those who believe and want to see the presentation again. Those who think it was not worthwhile wouldn't come back and waste another 2 days.
I'd also be wary of the "36 trade" refund promise. Is this any 36 trades, is this with any broker?

Just wondering

kny3

 

[TorontoTrader2]

I think you get way more from Optionetics than what you could get from a book. And let's face it, if you start out with 10k and a few books there is a VERY good chance you will lose 5-10k to begin with. If it was that easy everyone would quit their jobs and trade.
Might as well pay experienced traders 1st to learn something. I know someone who goes to them all the time and it goes something like this:

Every time they come to town you can go for free again, and each time different instructors train the group. Most of these instructors have their own trading buiness or trade actively (at least the one who do the Canadian events) so you get tips and tricks from seasoned traders all the time, can ask them questions etc. They have some sort of phone support to call in with questions I think. People are paying to be able to hear and be taught by a few pro traders speak for two days every few times a year. One of the fellows is an ex- pit trader