Who will teach me?

Crispy said:
Seconded.

OP -
What methods have you tried?

Opening orders, MOC strategies, Vwaps, mean reversion, I used trade ideas a lot with the oddsmaker to creat strategies.

How many systems have you tried?

upwards of 10
How long did you stick to each one?

I traded consistently for a year, then off and on.

Did any of them have a positive expectancy over the long haul?

I did have a +ev or at least I thought I did. It just never materialized for me. I was up one month, down the next. Overall, losing slightly more than I would make...

What time frames have you attempted to trade?
Almost all. from the 1 min to daily charts. Rarely swing traded though.....

What is your best trait?
Honesty.

What is your worst trait?
EDIT* accountability. I dont like explaining myself because I tend to think I do what I am supposed to do. When I get questioned, it makes me think people dont believe me.....

Do you like Gambling?
Unfortunately, yes.......Lost more than I have won.....

Have you ever logged statistics on your personal trading?
yes, notebooks have been filled with daily trades. I used to eat, sleep, and drink trading. Honestly, many of nights spend in front of trade ideas analyzing trades, setups, etc. 2-3am wasnt uncommon....It just never materialized for me for whatever reason.

It was one of the hardest things I had to do. Quit trading. Was depressed and anxiety went through the roof. Very sad next month for me.........I picked myself up and had to do what I had to do to provide for my family. Life isnt easy, no one ever said it was.

Trading allowed me to stay at home, it was different every day, I thought I could use my smarts to outwit others. I thought I could make a system and I would reap the rewards.

I dont need tens of millions of dollars, Im not looking to make 1 million a month or year, I dont need that. I just enjoyed trading, I really did. I think about it all the time. With my job, a 4 month old child, life kind of gets in the way. It is what it is.

Someday, hopefully soon, I can get back into it!
More...

OP -
What methods have you tried?

Opening orders, MOC strategies, Vwaps, mean reversion, I used trade ideas a lot with the oddsmaker to creat strategies.

How many systems have you tried?

upwards of 10
How long did you stick to each one?

I traded consistently for a year, then off and on.

Did any of them have a positive expectancy over the long haul?

I did have a +ev or at least I thought I did. It just never materialized for me. I was up one month, down the next. Overall, losing slightly more than I would make...

What time frames have you attempted to trade?
Almost all. from the 1 min to daily charts. Rarely swing traded though.....

What is your best trait?
Honesty.

What is your worst trait?
EDIT* accountability. I dont like explaining myself because I tend to think I do what I am supposed to do. When I get questioned, it makes me think people dont believe me.....

Do you like Gambling?
Unfortunately, yes.......Lost more than I have won.....

Have you ever logged statistics on your personal trading?
yes, notebooks have been filled with daily trades. I used to eat, sleep, and drink trading. Honestly, many of nights spend in front of trade ideas analyzing trades, setups, etc. 2-3am wasnt uncommon....It just never materialized for me for whatever reason.

It was one of the hardest things I had to do. Quit trading. Was depressed and anxiety went through the roof. Very sad next month for me.........I picked myself up and had to do what I had to do to provide for my family. Life isnt easy, no one ever said it was.

Trading allowed me to stay at home, it was different every day, I thought I could use my smarts to outwit others. I thought I could make a system and I would reap the rewards.

I dont need tens of millions of dollars, Im not looking to make 1 million a month or year, I dont need that. I just enjoyed trading, I really did. I think about it all the time. With my job, a 4 month old child, life kind of gets in the way. It is what it is.

Someday, hopefully soon, I can get back into it!
 
NoDoji said:
What is it you love about trading if you haven't been able to make any money at it?

I'm pretty sure that just under 101% of the folks trading for a living here trade to make money.
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nodoji,

its the thrill of it. its the every day not knowing what the markets will do, how the stocks will react, how the markets will react to the news. Its listening to flyonthewall, briefing, trade the news. its the adrenaline rush. its the ability to work from the comforts of your home and make a living for your family.

some people like to fish for a living, some like to sew, I chose medical and yes it had provided a steady income for my family and myself but it hasnt fulfilled me..........It isnt my 1st love. Dont get me wrong, I love helping people, even in my management type of role, I still see patients on a weekly basis. if trading never pans out for me, I am ok with that. I made peace with myself a long time ago in regards to that...But, besides have a little baby, I 'think' I have everything I need.

if im not mistaken, i remember you from ivica juracic's trading room. I was once in there as well. you were a newbie back then if I recall correctly.....

I hope you are consistent now and are making money....
 
StockBagger said:
nodoji,
if im not mistaken, i remember you from ivica juracic's trading room. I was once in there as well. you were a newbie back then if I recall correctly.....
More...

That name (ivica) sounds familiar, like someone who used to post swing trade ideas here (quite good as I recall), but I've never been in that trading room. I frequented ET's trading room in 2008/2009, then over to Robert Weinstein's room when ET's closed down. I was definitely a newbie during that period.

StockBagger said:
its the thrill of it. its the every day not knowing what the markets will do, how the stocks will react, how the markets will react to the news. Its listening to flyonthewall, briefing, trade the news. its the adrenaline rush. its the ability to work from the comforts of your home and make a living for your family.

some people like to fish for a living, some like to sew, I chose medical and yes it had provided a steady income for my family and myself but it hasnt fulfilled me..........It isnt my 1st love. Dont get me wrong, I love helping people, even in my management type of role, I still see patients on a weekly basis. if trading never pans out for me, I am ok with that. I made peace with myself a long time ago in regards to that...But, besides have a little baby, I 'think' I have everything I need.
More...

From your answers to previous questions I get the following impressions:

> What you love about trading is more related to gambling (thrills) and what I think of as the David/Goliath triumph effect (little guy outsmarting the big market), both of which are related to "brain reward" as in ASAM's short definition of addiction: a chronic disease of brain reward.

> Profitable trading seems so easy when you look at charts, yet when attempting to follow simple ideas, the results can be flat to awful depending on one's ability to manage risk and follow a basic plan. It seems like you've jumped from idea to idea looking for a simple way to make trading work, and have encountered failure each time.

Consistently profitable trading, the kind of trading that limits the risk of ruin, is a real grind. Day trading especially requires constant focus, stamina and discipline.

Developing a positive expectancy trading plan from those ideas that look so simple on static charts can take hundreds to thousands of hours.

Learning to follow such a plan with proper discipline can take just as long and it's possible that you'll never master your own plan and may have to automate your trading. Mike Tyson famously once said: “Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face.” Trading involves getting (figuratively) punched in the face on a regular basis, but over time losing trades lose that punch and become a normal part of a fairly boring job.

Profitable trading, whether automated or manual, tends to be a "grind it out" sort of affair, with profits accruing steadily over each series of winning and losing trades. If you tinker with a plan (or override an automated system) searching for perfection, you'll likely end up flat to negative in terms of profits.

If you don't already have fulfillment and joy in your life, I don't think trading will fill that void.
 
austinp said:
I'll be honest with you. I don't believe one word of it, and I know for a fact your talk of "hedging" bad trades with options is complete and utter bullshit. So do all the other real traders here who understand futures, options and "hedging".
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Hey Austin maybe you can work for this guy....... in case you missed it read this:
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showpost.php?p=3840915&postcount=20

All get base salary of $1,000 per week regardless if they make or lose money, full bennies, health ins, sick days, 4 weeks vacation, life insurance, short term disability, retirement, college fund for kids and profit sharing. There are weekly/monthly/Holiday goals that if met, they receive added bonuses from couple hundred bucks to $200k yearly bonus. Goals are not totally money based, getting very low losing percentages on losses is. They get fun extras of limos for Valentine's Day, Santa brings gifts on Christmas morn to each house, birthdays of all family members are remembered, monthly parties and free baby sitting services on Friday/Saturdays. Free attorney services, less my people are worried about their kids or whatever, they more into concentrating on their job. And after one year, LLC buys a $500k brand new house to live in-rent free. They are all under very strict contracts. We run 3 shifts from Sunday afternoon to Friday afternoon.
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Who needs combines when you can get that???

Also lots of entertaining stuff happening there like cats placing orders, illegals climbing up on the roof, getting knocked out with superballs, holes busted in walls and doors, getting puked on by a fireman, etc................
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showpost.php?p=3653322&postcount=2
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showpost.php?p=3786898&postcount=2

Sounds like a fun place, maybe we can all go there! :D:D:D
 
NoDoji said:
That name (ivica) sounds familiar, like someone who used to post swing trade ideas here (quite good as I recall), but I've never been in that trading room. I frequented ET's trading room in 2008/2009, then over to Robert Weinstein's room when ET's closed down. I was definitely a newbie during that period.



From your answers to previous questions I get the following impressions:

> What you love about trading is more related to gambling (thrills) and what I think of as the David/Goliath triumph effect (little guy outsmarting the big market), both of which are related to "brain reward" as in ASAM's short definition of addiction: a chronic disease of brain reward.

> Profitable trading seems so easy when you look at charts, yet when attempting to follow simple ideas, the results can be flat to awful depending on one's ability to manage risk and follow a basic plan. It seems like you've jumped from idea to idea looking for a simple way to make trading work, and have encountered failure each time.

Consistently profitable trading, the kind of trading that limits the risk of ruin, is a real grind. Day trading especially requires constant focus, stamina and discipline.

Developing a positive expectancy trading plan from those ideas that look so simple on static charts can take hundreds to thousands of hours.

Learning to follow such a plan with proper discipline can take just as long and it's possible that you'll never master your own plan and may have to automate your trading. Mike Tyson famously once said: “Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face.” Trading involves getting (figuratively) punched in the face on a regular basis, but over time losing trades lose that punch and become a normal part of a fairly boring job.

Profitable trading, whether automated or manual, tends to be a "grind it out" sort of affair, with profits accruing steadily over each series of winning and losing trades. If you tinker with a plan (or override an automated system) searching for perfection, you'll likely end up flat to negative in terms of profits.

If you don't already have fulfillment and joy in your life, I don't think trading will fill that void.
More...


That's right, it was Weinstein's room!

I have plenty of joy in my life, I have the money to travel when and where I want to. I'm healthy, my wife is healthy, both parents are alive and healthy, kids are healthy, nice home. Debt free. Married for 12 years, together 17. More than I can probably say for most. The ONLY part that isn't complete is my career. Who knows if it will ever be but as I have said before, I have made peace with it..

Many people work in fields or work multiple jobs to get the bills paid and provide for their families. I do that right now. In an "ideal world", I would be a trader.

Glad you are doing well now, it seems like your hard work has paid off, congrats to you!
 
StockBagger,

I'm going by you thread title (who will teach me) and nothing else you may have said...

If you want someone to teach you how to trade, that's mentoring and such should only be done in person only via the trader trading from his/her own trading account in front of your own two eyes for a minimum of one month.

Considering you just now mentioned you're able to travel whenever you want...that then should not be a problem for you. I can't remember the ET member's name but he had an office in Vancouver (I think) and profitably trading independently. More importantly, he had an open door policy to anyone that wanted to visit and learn how to do what he did. A few ET members took him up on his offer and were very happy they did. I do remember him posting a picture of his office here at ET in a thread where traders posted pictures of their trading room...he posted a picture that had a trading room which a dozen or so large monitors and his work desk @ http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?t=43661

Also, I think he shared office with another profitable independent trader. Yet, he never mentioned anything about mentoring those that visited him. You never know, you can visit him and maybe persuade him into doing some mentoring.

It may be something you may want to look into and Vancouver is a nice place to visit.
 
Maverick74 said:
There are a million better outlets to find guidance then ET. Con men are attracted to this site like moths to a flame. At the very least, never do a business with a man you can't look in the eye. Make sure you vet his credit (very cheap nowdays) and get letters of reference. But even if you do all three, good con men can pass all these tests.
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That is absolutely correct. There is no country like the USA where you can just go and say, show me your credit score. That says so much about a person, it's unbelievable. I received a credit score in the USA and I have no problem showing it to anyone I do business with, I wish they have done the same in the past with me.
 
traderslair said:
That is absolutely correct. There is no country like the USA where you can just go and say, show me your credit score. That says so much about a person, it's unbelievable. I received a credit score in the USA and I have no problem showing it to anyone I do business with, I wish they have done the same in the past with me.
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It works both ways. Many wealthy couples do it all the time...its not one sided to ensure obnoxious debt isn't being brought into a new marriage. Heck, some of the most private dating services for wealthy people allows "credit score" to be used as a screening criteria if one wants too.

I once read (I think it was CNN.com) that women are most likely to look at men credit scores in comparison to men looking at women credit scores to decide if the person is worthy enough to date :)
 
Baron said:
I think you should check out the offerings from bone, one of our sponsors.

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?t=284153
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While I appreciate very much the vote of confidence, I doubt I would be of much help to the OP and would encourage him to continue with his present profession, contribute as much as he can to his 401K, and to find another outlet for his energy and passions.

Anyone looking for and demanding certainty as the OP explained in his initial post should not be trading markets and should not be looking for trading education or mentoring. Period. Delusional expectation and entirely wrong-headed approach to becoming successful trading markets.

Unfortunately, too many trading educators are perfectly willing to exploit a person's need to reconcile certainty and risk to the point that emotions are calmed and easy money is assured.

I avoid potential clients who are looking for certainty and ironclad assurances in terms of how they might personally profit in the markets. I have no idea what the hell is going to happen 10 seconds from now much less 10 weeks from now. And believing that you can replicate or exceed another trader's performance or P&L is not realistic.
 
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