Who says we are not a socialist country?

[dddooo]

Quote from Maverick74:

Modern socialism is now a blend of collective workers rights as well as individual rights.

Even if I agreed with your definition of socialism (and I don't) we don't have "collective workers rights" in this country, if anything they are becoming the thing of the past as unions are losing their power and influence. Neither workers not the government interfere with or are involved in Exxon's or Aetna's or Dell's day to day activities, business decisions and distribution of profits. There are certainly minor regulations related to things like environment, security, safety etc, businesses and individuals are taxed and the tax system is progressive but it's a far cry from socialism.

You said I was painting it in black and white but what do you call equating taxation with socialism?

 

[resinate]

Quote from Maverick74:

That is not true. By your definition France and Germany would not have free enterprise and yet they do. There are many ways a state can have control and create a collective citizenship. One of the ways is through taxes. In the old Soviet Union, which was communist by the way, they did it by way of the gun. Some countries do it by forbidding private property rights, which btw France and Germany both have as well as do Norway and Sweden, also socialist states by their own admission. You are using a very pure 18th century definition of the word. Modern socialism is now a blend of collective workers rights as well as individual rights. It's not nearly as black and white as you paint it.

In the modern economy, taxes, regulations, and limits on individual and corporate interests are the footprints of modern socialism.

To approach this from a political science point of view....

From the Websters link above:
1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

I think 3 is key. Socialism is another form of unequal distribution where the state controls the means of production. The USSR and other failed socialist states never reached communism, which according to Marx, is a Utopian society where the state withers and goods and services are distributed 'to each according to need and from each according to ability'. Some of the European democracies have touches of socialism where key industries are state owned and significant resources are re-distributed.

 

[murray t turtle]

Quote from acronym:

Most of those "things" didnt exist 100 years ago, either.
toll roads? road usage? telephones?traffic fines?

==================
Acronym;

Actually try to avoid toll roads/traffic fines;
& chose to pay an occasional voluntary tax on gun with walnut stock

 

[TGregg]

Quote from Maverick74:

Taxes we currently pay in this country.


> Accounts Receivable Tax
> Building Permit Tax
> Capital Gains Tax
> CDL license Tax
> Cigarette Tax
> Corporate Income Tax
> Court Fines (indirect taxes )
> Dog License Tax
> Federal Income Tax
> Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
> Fishing License Tax
> Food License Tax
> Fuel permit tax
> Gasoline Tax (42 cents per gallon)
> Hunting License Tax
> Inheritance Tax Interest expense (tax on the mone y)
> Inventory tax IRS Interest Charges (tax on top of tax)
> IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
> Liquor Tax
> Local Income Tax
> Luxury Taxes
> Marriage License Tax
> Medicare Tax
> Property Tax
> Real Estate Tax
> Septic Permit Tax
> Service Charge Taxes
> Social Security Tax
> Road Usage Taxes (Truckers)
> Sales Taxes
> Recreational Vehicle Tax
> Road Toll Booth Taxes
> School Tax
> State Income Tax
> State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
> Telephone federal excise tax
> Telephone federal universal service fee tax
> Telephone federal, state and
> local surcharge taxes
> Telephone minimum usage surcharge tax
> Telephone recurring and nonrecurring charges tax Telephone state*
> *and local tax
> Telephone usage charge tax< BR>Toll Bridge Taxes
> Toll Tunnel Taxes
> Traffic Fines (indirect taxation)
> Trailer Registration Tax
> Utility Taxes
> Vehicle License Registration Tax
> Vehicle Sales Tax
> Watercraft Registration Tax
> Well Permit Tax
> Workers Compensation Tax


Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago and our nation was the most prosperous in the world, had absolutely no national debt, had the largest middle class in the world and only one parent had to work to support the family. Thank you big government!

Most big cities now have a "business tax", which is seperate from a business income tax and sales taxes. It's a tax you pay up front to have a business. You also forget that most (all?) states have a gas tax in addition to the federal tax. Most (all?) states make more money on a gallon of gas than the "Price Gouging" oil companies, and so does Uncle Sam. "Greedy Oil Companies" make about 10-12 cents a gallon in profits.

There's also a 911 telephone tax and a tax for making phone service available to rural areas.

 

[Ricter]

We have a mixed economy.

 

[futures_shark]

What do you call it when someone forces you to give them money?

On the Sopranos they call it "protection".

US Politicians call it taxation.

 

[PoundTheRock]

Our politicians are well on their way to destroying the government we know. Just when they thought they had everything locked up in their districts, i.e., gerrymandering ensuring high incumbency, they have planted the seeds of a runaway debt (geometric to exponential in the past six years) that will force drastic government cutbacks and a revamping of the entire benefits state. The public response to illegal immigration and energy prices is just the groundswell -- it's fun to watch 'em scramble. Eventually, citizens will want to become politicians to serve the public, not for the cushy benefits.

 

[PitchBlack]

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

If we really were a socialist country, we would not see this:

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=415939

Or this:

<img src=http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20060416/capt.ny11304160537.exxon_riches_ny113.jpg?x=229&y=345&sig=7Xr84S9BLL3o8xtEcJBSxQ-->

or this:

Approximately 46 million Americans, or 15.7 percent of the population, were without health insurance in 2004....

New study about the wealthiest nation on earth:
http://www.cmwf.org/publications/publications_show.htm?doc_id=367876


Where i live EVERYBODY is insured for healthcare. But we have less billionaires.
How do you mesure wealth? By the quality of live of the average worker, or by the quality of live of the 100 richest persons?

 

[Cesko]

Quote from dddooo:

Socialism is not defined by taxes, as a matter of fact they paid virtually no taxes in the former soviet union, there probably aren't any taxes in Cuba and North Korea. Socialism is defined as "collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods", it has nothing to do with taxes or the size of the government.

You can legitimately complain about our bloated government, but it's capitalist (and more specifically republican) government, not socialist government.

No, in U.S.S.R. people were taxed,in North Korea people are being taxed, in Cuba people are being taxed. In former Czechoslovakia we were fucking taxed. Fucking idiots. Where the fucking money for bureaucrats were coming from do you think? You are freaking brain dead. Regarding the stupid picture, there were bunch of guys like that in Politbyro in Prague you stupid idiots and they were as much richer than the rest of us just like this guy in the picture. Does it matter what you call it, tax or whatever???
Yeah there are no taxes in socialism sure. You talk bullshit just like them when they were telling us we had everything for free, in America you had to pay for everything.
If you tell me there wasn't real socialism in Soviet Union, Eastern Europe etc.(I know people like you like to say that) there has never been any other socialism.
At least you can leave the U.S. any time. I was sentenced to 2 years in prison for leaving country "illegally". You probably have no clue what I am talking about.

P.S. If I get banned by moderator for language I will be OK with it. I cannot read such a non-sense and leave it as it is. Get it into your skulls guys you know shit about socialism And theory is useless.

 

[dddooo]

Quote from Cesko:

No, in U.S.S.R. people were taxed,in North Korea people are being taxed

Truly socialist countries and governments don't collect taxes, they don't need to as they simply OWN everything - that's the nature of true socialism. Governments not owning the means of production but collecting taxes to sustain their activities have absolutely nothing to do with socialism. Taxes existed in feudal societies in the medieval world - peasants and serfs paid taxes to the king, to the church, to the landlord, they paid taxes for the land, for the army, for marriages and death, for the air they breathed and for the food they ate. Paying taxes has nothing to do with becoming a socialist country.

Quote from Cesko:

P.S. If I get banned by moderator for language I will be OK

I don't know about that but fortunately for you they don't ban for ignorance and stupidity.

Quote from Cesko:

If you tell me there wasn't real socialism in Soviet Union, Eastern Europe etc.(I know people like you like to say that) there has never been any other socialism.

Reading comprehension problems? I said exactly the opposite, I said that there was indeed real true socialism in the Soviet Union and other Eastern European countries, that this country has absolutely nothing to do with socialism and that equating taxation with socialism is absurd.