ok, fair enough...He does seem to be an interesting guy, and I have known a few traders who had direct experience with him...so I've heard the stories (good and bad)...these threads just feel worn out though after all of these years...it's hard to believe there isn't someone else to provide us with the same "he's a character, brilliant, flawed", but an interesting sort to discuss...
who is your fav trader to follow?
- Thread starter cashclay
- Start date
ok, fair enough...He does seem to be an interesting guy, and I have known a few traders who had direct experience with him...so I've heard the stories (good and bad)...these threads just feel worn out though after all of these years...it's hard to believe there isn't someone else to provide us with the same "he's a character, brilliant, flawed", but an interesting sort to discuss...
ha, so suddenly you do not know? We thought you were VN himself in the disguise of an unsuccessful retail punter with a 10 year old hardware rig.
Why are you surprised. He is just one of the masses. If Surfer spent one hour reading Taleb for each 10 hours of Niederhoffer I think he might come out of all of it a more balanced individual.
nobody every questioned that VN might teach well and has interesting bits of research.
But I think you still did not get what the thread title is about. VN is an absolute loser when it comes to trading but he might be a great analyst and teacher.
But I think you still did not get what the thread title is about. VN is an absolute loser when it comes to trading but he might be a great analyst and teacher.
Losers leave the opm game with $100's of millions? Your ignorance is staggering about his trading history. He has a 20 year record of outstanding trading performance. He is one of the greatest traders who has ever lived overall despite the short lived blow ups.
In case you dont understand-- many ( not all) top performing traders blow up at times. Big risk is often a preresquite to outsized gains.
Last edited:
Can you name another "famous" or "big" top performing trader that managed OPM who lost 100% of his fund ? You seem to imply there have been many. Just one wipe out though. Doing it a 2nd time has probably never been done by anyone except VN. LTCM comes to mind. Other than that I can't think of any.
And lets quit calling him an american hero Surf......that is ridiculous. Heroes are people who save people or show incredible courage. That word should be used for Military people....doctors...those types. It is actually a bit offensive you call him an american hero.
Your argument that many great traders came from his teaching is a valid point. He is/was a great teacher. Nobody denies that. But being a great teacher and a great trader are 2 completely different animals.
If the 5-7 year run at Matador is indicative of his 20 year career,I am ballparking a 17 percent annual return and I am assuming a max drawdown of 77%. Keep in mind,half of Vics run occurred when clearing agents had their eyes closed regarding leverage/writing naked options
I am not intimately familiar with how Vic made his money,but its pretty obvious how he blew it. From the running dialogue on Vic,it doesnt appear you are a derivatives guy. Unless you can prove that the bulk of Vics success had nothing to do with selling massive amount of downside wings,you shouldnt be labeling anyones perspective as ignorant.
Surf,you couldnt/wouldnt answer my question regarding Vics leverage for the underlying notional of the short strikes,so how can you possibly defend his performance or say that he is one of the greatest traders ever?
And yes,hes a brilliant researcher,teacher and much can be learned from him..no one debates that..
If he did leave the business with 100,s of millions,he should be very thankful that he played with a stacked deck. OPM,management fees,percent of upside,and I am guessing no high water marks as he blew up so spectacularly,closed the fund and started fresh.
I am not intimately familiar with how Vic made his money,but its pretty obvious how he blew it. From the running dialogue on Vic,it doesnt appear you are a derivatives guy. Unless you can prove that the bulk of Vics success had nothing to do with selling massive amount of downside wings,you shouldnt be labeling anyones perspective as ignorant.
Surf,you couldnt/wouldnt answer my question regarding Vics leverage for the underlying notional of the short strikes,so how can you possibly defend his performance or say that he is one of the greatest traders ever?
And yes,hes a brilliant researcher,teacher and much can be learned from him..no one debates that..
If he did leave the business with 100,s of millions,he should be very thankful that he played with a stacked deck. OPM,management fees,percent of upside,and I am guessing no high water marks as he blew up so spectacularly,closed the fund and started fresh.
Last edited:
It is very simple. Smurf sells his soul for access. Once you give him an interview, he will worship you forever. Vic let him sit at his bare feet, and ever since Smurf is a believer. The same with Tim Sykes. Whoever never gave him access is criticized by him for the exact same reasons what he is worshipping the above mentioned for.
Simple as it is. If you want to make Smurf your lapdog, just invite him over for dinner.
But let's make it a logical conclusion:
Smurf follows Vic and Smurf can't trade.Therefore,................
And Volpunter is correct, Vic had at least 2 other almost blow ups (beside the 2 well known real blow ups), 9/11 being one of them. Using his own words, "it was nip and tuck".
Last edited:
Surf I am still waiting for you to name other big funds/traders that have lost their entire fund. You seem to imply it has happened often. I guess from your silence that you admit it is really just VN who has been down that road.
The only others I can recall are LTCM who lost 4.4 of 4.7 billion, Brian Hunter (Amaranth), and good ol Nick Leeson of Barings.
Not exactly a list I would want to be associated with.
The only others I can recall are LTCM who lost 4.4 of 4.7 billion, Brian Hunter (Amaranth), and good ol Nick Leeson of Barings.
Not exactly a list I would want to be associated with.