Who gets the "Props" for training..?

Anything is possible. Sure, your chances of success are not high, likely 5% or less, but its the dream and it can be done
 
Quote from Szeven:

Anything is possible. Sure, your chances of success are not high, likely 5% or less, but its the dream and it can be done
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Ahh...and now we come to the REAL reason why people flock to proprietary trading firms. It is the rallying cry of the New York Lottery and casinos all over the world: "All you need is a dollar and a dream!"
 
thanks for the replies

Just seems like in general to "run your own show" generally you would be working very hard for at least 100K. Living in NY, and one day trying to change careers, possibly as a remote trader, that would really be what I'd be looking for (of course not from the start) From what I've read before I figured that wasn't unreasonable. Hard to believe people would invest all that is required in terms of time, energy, $, sweat, tears, etc... for a target profit of 50K.

I would think there are plenty of people on ET that make 100K, not saying it was easy or that it happened overnight.

Am I that way off? :confused:
 
If a potential trader is not trying to make a good six figure income (with the exception of someone trading part time, doing openings for example to augment their salary)...then why bother? Trading can simply be "dialed up" when consistency and comfort level are attained.

Don
 
that's how I try to rationalize, Lord knows the Great Neck Bright guys need substantially more than 50K !, as I would
 
Quote from pkny:

that's how I try to rationalize, Lord knows the Great Neck Bright guys need substantially more than 50K !, as I would
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LOL, and the Boston guys...geez, I'm so spoiled here in Vegas, LOL. I'm afraid to visit either office, since I always take the groups out for dinner and drinks, damn near blow up my credit card, LOL. Here I get by with $7.99 buffet, in NY or Boston it's more like $120 apiece......I gotta get a bigger expense account.

Don :p
 
Quote from goldenarm:

If you're interested in cracking the Trader Monthly 100, your best bet is going the traditional route and joining the Sales and Trading arm of a major financial institution, broker-dealer or established hedge fund. The days of the Dan Zangers making millions of dollars starting out with a few grand are long gone. The internet bubble was a once in a lifetime experience for the lucky few of us who profited from it.

You're young, intelligent and come from a good school. Focus your efforts on joining a broker/dealer desk. Pay your dues and climb the ladder. If you're talented you can write your own ticket and start your own firm. That's the profile of many Trader Monthly Hall of Famers. Prop trading will always be around and the barriers to entry are almost non-existent. Even an 80 year old, uneducated grandmother with a few grand who passes the Series 7 can become a prop trader. But your window of opportunity for joining a top institutional trading firm is very small.
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Thanks for a different perspective. Your post and more importantly your time are much appreciated.
 
Quote from goldenarm:

If you're interested in cracking the Trader Monthly 100, your best bet is going the traditional route and joining the Sales and Trading arm of a major financial institution, broker-dealer or established hedge fund. The days of the Dan Zangers making millions of dollars starting out with a few grand are long gone. The internet bubble was a once in a lifetime experience for the lucky few of us who profited from it.

You're young, intelligent and come from a good school. Focus your efforts on joining a broker/dealer desk. Pay your dues and climb the ladder. If you're talented you can write your own ticket and start your own firm. That's the profile of many Trader Monthly Hall of Famers. Prop trading will always be around and the barriers to entry are almost non-existent. Even an 80 year old, uneducated grandmother with a few grand who passes the Series 7 can become a prop trader. But your window of opportunity for joining a top institutional trading firm is very small.

Do you really want to struggle as a prop trader and find out that five years later, it's a pain in the ass to grind out $50-60K, when you could have become an established trader at an institutional firm pulling down $200K+? By then it will be too late to start over. The opportunity cost will be very high if you waste your prime post-college years with a prop firm. Right now, you're highly marketable to any financial institution. If you throw away a few years to a five and dime prop firm, you won't look nearly as attractive to recruiters. Think long and hard about it.

If you want to trade prop, open an E-Trade account and read a ton of books. Do it on the side. But if you want to be a trading millionaire, then go the traditional route. Prop trading is usually reserved for career changers or people without any other prospects. Don't waste your degree on a prop firm. Don't be blinded by photos of traders making money from their laptop on the beaches of Tahiti. If you want to make money, you have to be chained to your desk and study the markets like a hawk. It's grueling and hard work and it's no different from putting in 12 hour days at Goldman Sachs. But the payoff at Goldman is infinitely higher. Don't be fooled by firms that say they'll give you training from a seasoned pro. Most of the trainers I've seen are just living off of their achievements during the glory days and are mediocre traders at best. Remember, their main objective is to recruit you to join their firm and fork over your commission dollars. It's all smoke and mirrors. These so-called trainers don't even actively trade anymore and the trading advice they teach can be easily obtained from a book. Like anything else, experience is the best teacher for becoming a good trader. 90% of what makes a good trader is effective risk management. This can be taught to someone in five minutes but it can take years to actually learn it. That's because we are dictated by our emotions. Remember, fear and greed will be your worst enemies as a trader.

The truth is that if you want to make big bucks as a prop trader, you have to have a big bank roll and be able to weather some severe ups and downs, the types of moves that routinely wipe out smaller accounts for breakfast. No prop firm will let you do this with their own money. They'll give you about $100K of leverage and you'll be grinding it out for nickels with 300 shares. It's a grueling and tiring way to make money and you'll be extremely lucky to make six figures. The only people making real money in prop trading are the owners and those with multi-million dollar accounts that are remnants from trading the internet bubble. You won't be able to make millions starting from scratch in this market. It's way too volatile and there's just no clear direction.

Do your research and talk to other traders with a couple years of experience. There are many ways to make millions of dollars in this country and prop trading is much harder than most other professions. PM me if you have any questions. Good luck pal, you'll need it!
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There is quite a bit of truth to this, but I have to add some clarity. While a firm like Goldman may be your best bet out of college, it's only your best bet if that's the lifestyle you want and project for yourself. Most people on here want to be proptraders because of the flexibility in hours and the freedom in their lives...no more than 1 hour ago was I watching Tim Sykes (who posted in this thread) trading in his apartment in a bathrobe on Wall Street Warriors. That's obviously not a luxury one can get at any institutional house on the Street, and if one starts at a big firm, it's likely a luxury he/she will NEVER realize.

For some odd reason, most people think they can do 2-5 years at a bulge bracket and cut out, when in fact the skill set has become so drilled down that only a select few positions lend themselves to have the amazing exit opportunities everyone wants (especially in S&T). You think you're taking chances becoming a proptrader? Well think about these odds:

1st, gain entry into the trading arm of a bulge bracket (that'll weed out alot of ppl)

2nd, gain that coveted equity or option trading desk seat (which will only go to the absolute smartest of the hires...otherwise you'll be staffed on trading an exotic/muni/structured product that is non-flow and isn't as attractive to hedge fund recruiters)

3rd, excel at the job, breaking past the analyst, associate, and vp levels, still putting in those 13 hour days with 2 weeks vacation (remember, traders are getting dropped at each promotion level, so good luck hanging on)

4th, see what options are available to you (on the BUY SIDE, because that's what everyone is attempting to get to, right?)

For some, that's more of a gamble than spending a year after college trading proprietarily. And at the end of that year, the street is always there. When most people fail, their attention span in that area won't last more than a year, so I don't think it's harmful at all to give it a shot and move on if you can't do it. And don't forget that when you're trading at a big firm, you're on the sell-side making markets, and hopefully 2 years out they'll give you some prop money to trade....but your job is to make markets, and you will get fired if you ignore that and trade prop all the time).

Hopefully, if you're lucky, you'll realize that it is something you want to do, and you will attain that lifestyle you want. And you may not make the coveted half a million dollar GS bonus, but for some, working 12 hours a day for themselves in their underwear for 60-100k is better than never being the boss and always having to ask to use the bathroom (slight exaggeration, yes).

And Gr8Veto, I have no clue why you're talking the way you are...it makes the rest of us UT guys look bad.
 
Quote from EEUT84:

And Gr8Veto, I have no clue why you're talking the way you are...it makes the rest of us UT guys look bad.
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Well, first of all thank you very much for your input. I can definitely see your side of this debate and I appreciate your taking the time to present it. But how exactly am I making UT guys look bad..? Being that this is written I can't judge if your tone is sarcastic or serious...
 
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