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Who gets the "Props" for training..?
- Thread starter Gr8Veto
- Start date
Our entire training program, from basic 3 day (open to public) to extensive Mentoring programs is constantly being updated, automated, and tweaked. We teach what we do, and we do what we teach - we are a trading firm first, and a training firm second (out of necessity in my mind). When my brother and our team trade millions of shares profitably, I think it makes sense to share that information with potential long term traders.
One thing to keep in mind about trading (with us anyway), is that you're running your own business within our framework, using our capital....you are not an employee or anything. We act as a money provider and facilitator, not a "boss."
All the best,
Don
One thing to keep in mind about trading (with us anyway), is that you're running your own business within our framework, using our capital....you are not an employee or anything. We act as a money provider and facilitator, not a "boss."
All the best,
Don
ok don
I don't feel like you did a good job answering my questions. But nonetheless, I appreciate every time you participate. I will give you a call someday when the second question is more pertinent...
...thanks again, sir.
PS - Sanjuro, the first 10 pages or so of your link was very insightful. I thank you.
I don't feel like you did a good job answering my questions. But nonetheless, I appreciate every time you participate. I will give you a call someday when the second question is more pertinent...
...thanks again, sir.
PS - Sanjuro, the first 10 pages or so of your link was very insightful. I thank you.
Quote from Verick:
One more thing Sir Don
Also, in regards to future entrepreneurial opportunities⦠In your most discouraging and cynical post that I have read you wroteâ¦
Well good sir, I saw no mention of these âincentivesâ on the website. And yes Don, I could call you and you could tell me about them, but that would just leave someone else wondering. So why not tell us all⦠about the incentives. Youâre a good salesman (no negative connotation intended) show us the dream!
â¦thank you in advance for your response, sir.
I got your PM, and searched to see what I may have missed answering...which is what type of incentives our affiliates are given.
Some financially back traders, thus a "true prop" of sorts, and keep a percentage of profits plus a commission differential. Some act as Corporate managers and keep a percentage of gross commissions.
Having been in this business for so long, I have seen, and been involved in, dozens of differing arrangements. I'm generally willing to listen to anything that makes sense, and will make sense to my traders.
Don
"My question for you is what do you see as a career path for someone with an entrepreneurial spirit and eyes on the ever increasing âTrader Monthly Top 100â pot of gold..? Iâm not looking for quick money, but beginning as professional trader at 23, I donât see why the sky wouldnât be the limitâ¦"
I hate to burst your bubble but I worked with two people on that list and they were two of the least profitable traders Ive ever know. They picked 1 b/ she spoke 6 languages and was a black belt but couldnt trade bonds to save her life. The other stood next to his brother and scammed orders for over a decade in nat gas.
Second point is what are you asking what people can do for you?You should be asking what you can do for people like Don. The fact is if a company can bat .500 with a prop trading training group it is a miracle. You are meerly a number till you get 24-36 months under your belt in my opinions
I hate to burst your bubble but I worked with two people on that list and they were two of the least profitable traders Ive ever know. They picked 1 b/ she spoke 6 languages and was a black belt but couldnt trade bonds to save her life. The other stood next to his brother and scammed orders for over a decade in nat gas.
Second point is what are you asking what people can do for you?You should be asking what you can do for people like Don. The fact is if a company can bat .500 with a prop trading training group it is a miracle. You are meerly a number till you get 24-36 months under your belt in my opinions
how true, its always a good idea to respect others that are profitable in this business. traders must learn to earn.. their is a long journey ahead of you, get some capital together if you want to enter the markets.. you will learn by doing, books are secondary, put your cash on the line & you will learn quick.. pay your dues as we all have done.. school of hard knocks...
Quote from artis74:
I hate to burst your bubble but I worked with two people on that list and they were two of the least profitable traders Ive ever know. They picked 1 b/ she spoke 6 languages and was a black belt but couldnt trade bonds to save her life. The other stood next to his brother and scammed orders for over a decade in nat gas.
Second point is what are you asking what people can do for you?You should be asking what you can do for people like Don. The fact is if a company can bat .500 with a prop trading training group it is a miracle. You are meerly a number till you get 24-36 months under your belt in my opinions
Lol... Yeah, as I'm learning more about the industry I see that of there is a lot bullshit hype out there that really doesn't mean anything. I only used "Trader Monthly" b/c of its iconic status... But yeah...
You are right... As was Scorpion... Right now I'm just trying to determine where my efforts are the most well spent. I'm more than willing to pay my fair share of "dues" and then some. But it would be irresponsible and moronic to pay dues in one place if there's a place with a higer ROD (return on dues). Wouldn't you say...? Also, if there's one thing that I've learned it is that the best way to advance quickly is to learn from other's mistakes and experiences... Ergo I ask...
If you're interested in cracking the Trader Monthly 100, your best bet is going the traditional route and joining the Sales and Trading arm of a major financial institution, broker-dealer or established hedge fund. The days of the Dan Zangers making millions of dollars starting out with a few grand are long gone. The internet bubble was a once in a lifetime experience for the lucky few of us who profited from it.
You're young, intelligent and come from a good school. Focus your efforts on joining a broker/dealer desk. Pay your dues and climb the ladder. If you're talented you can write your own ticket and start your own firm. That's the profile of many Trader Monthly Hall of Famers. Prop trading will always be around and the barriers to entry are almost non-existent. Even an 80 year old, uneducated grandmother with a few grand who passes the Series 7 can become a prop trader. But your window of opportunity for joining a top institutional trading firm is very small.
Do you really want to struggle as a prop trader and find out that five years later, it's a pain in the ass to grind out $50-60K, when you could have become an established trader at an institutional firm pulling down $200K+? By then it will be too late to start over. The opportunity cost will be very high if you waste your prime post-college years with a prop firm. Right now, you're highly marketable to any financial institution. If you throw away a few years to a five and dime prop firm, you won't look nearly as attractive to recruiters. Think long and hard about it.
If you want to trade prop, open an E-Trade account and read a ton of books. Do it on the side. But if you want to be a trading millionaire, then go the traditional route. Prop trading is usually reserved for career changers or people without any other prospects. Don't waste your degree on a prop firm. Don't be blinded by photos of traders making money from their laptop on the beaches of Tahiti. If you want to make money, you have to be chained to your desk and study the markets like a hawk. It's grueling and hard work and it's no different from putting in 12 hour days at Goldman Sachs. But the payoff at Goldman is infinitely higher. Don't be fooled by firms that say they'll give you training from a seasoned pro. Most of the trainers I've seen are just living off of their achievements during the glory days and are mediocre traders at best. Remember, their main objective is to recruit you to join their firm and fork over your commission dollars. It's all smoke and mirrors. These so-called trainers don't even actively trade anymore and the trading advice they teach can be easily obtained from a book. Like anything else, experience is the best teacher for becoming a good trader. 90% of what makes a good trader is effective risk management. This can be taught to someone in five minutes but it can take years to actually learn it. That's because we are dictated by our emotions. Remember, fear and greed will be your worst enemies as a trader.
The truth is that if you want to make big bucks as a prop trader, you have to have a big bank roll and be able to weather some severe ups and downs, the types of moves that routinely wipe out smaller accounts for breakfast. No prop firm will let you do this with their own money. They'll give you about $100K of leverage and you'll be grinding it out for nickels with 300 shares. It's a grueling and tiring way to make money and you'll be extremely lucky to make six figures. The only people making real money in prop trading are the owners and those with multi-million dollar accounts that are remnants from trading the internet bubble. You won't be able to make millions starting from scratch in this market. It's way too volatile and there's just no clear direction.
Do your research and talk to other traders with a couple years of experience. There are many ways to make millions of dollars in this country and prop trading is much harder than most other professions. PM me if you have any questions. Good luck pal, you'll need it!
You're young, intelligent and come from a good school. Focus your efforts on joining a broker/dealer desk. Pay your dues and climb the ladder. If you're talented you can write your own ticket and start your own firm. That's the profile of many Trader Monthly Hall of Famers. Prop trading will always be around and the barriers to entry are almost non-existent. Even an 80 year old, uneducated grandmother with a few grand who passes the Series 7 can become a prop trader. But your window of opportunity for joining a top institutional trading firm is very small.
Do you really want to struggle as a prop trader and find out that five years later, it's a pain in the ass to grind out $50-60K, when you could have become an established trader at an institutional firm pulling down $200K+? By then it will be too late to start over. The opportunity cost will be very high if you waste your prime post-college years with a prop firm. Right now, you're highly marketable to any financial institution. If you throw away a few years to a five and dime prop firm, you won't look nearly as attractive to recruiters. Think long and hard about it.
If you want to trade prop, open an E-Trade account and read a ton of books. Do it on the side. But if you want to be a trading millionaire, then go the traditional route. Prop trading is usually reserved for career changers or people without any other prospects. Don't waste your degree on a prop firm. Don't be blinded by photos of traders making money from their laptop on the beaches of Tahiti. If you want to make money, you have to be chained to your desk and study the markets like a hawk. It's grueling and hard work and it's no different from putting in 12 hour days at Goldman Sachs. But the payoff at Goldman is infinitely higher. Don't be fooled by firms that say they'll give you training from a seasoned pro. Most of the trainers I've seen are just living off of their achievements during the glory days and are mediocre traders at best. Remember, their main objective is to recruit you to join their firm and fork over your commission dollars. It's all smoke and mirrors. These so-called trainers don't even actively trade anymore and the trading advice they teach can be easily obtained from a book. Like anything else, experience is the best teacher for becoming a good trader. 90% of what makes a good trader is effective risk management. This can be taught to someone in five minutes but it can take years to actually learn it. That's because we are dictated by our emotions. Remember, fear and greed will be your worst enemies as a trader.
The truth is that if you want to make big bucks as a prop trader, you have to have a big bank roll and be able to weather some severe ups and downs, the types of moves that routinely wipe out smaller accounts for breakfast. No prop firm will let you do this with their own money. They'll give you about $100K of leverage and you'll be grinding it out for nickels with 300 shares. It's a grueling and tiring way to make money and you'll be extremely lucky to make six figures. The only people making real money in prop trading are the owners and those with multi-million dollar accounts that are remnants from trading the internet bubble. You won't be able to make millions starting from scratch in this market. It's way too volatile and there's just no clear direction.
Do your research and talk to other traders with a couple years of experience. There are many ways to make millions of dollars in this country and prop trading is much harder than most other professions. PM me if you have any questions. Good luck pal, you'll need it!
goldenarm
"It's a grueling and tiring way to make money and you'll be extremely lucky to make six figures. The only people making real money in prop trading are the owners and those with multi-million dollar accounts that are remnants from trading the internet bubble. You won't be able to make millions starting from scratch in this market. It's way too volatile and there's just no clear direction."
First, I'm not even a trader yet, but becoming one is a goal of mine. Hoping you can clarify something, because this sounds like good advice you are giving.
Is say $100K or even $150Kreally that off base, would it really take, "extreme luck"? Of course this is not easy but I would think hard working traders at "good" firms could pull that in. Just differentiating between the "six figures" and the "make millions" part of your post.
Thanks for any reply
pk
"It's a grueling and tiring way to make money and you'll be extremely lucky to make six figures. The only people making real money in prop trading are the owners and those with multi-million dollar accounts that are remnants from trading the internet bubble. You won't be able to make millions starting from scratch in this market. It's way too volatile and there's just no clear direction."
First, I'm not even a trader yet, but becoming one is a goal of mine. Hoping you can clarify something, because this sounds like good advice you are giving.
Is say $100K or even $150Kreally that off base, would it really take, "extreme luck"? Of course this is not easy but I would think hard working traders at "good" firms could pull that in. Just differentiating between the "six figures" and the "make millions" part of your post.
Thanks for any reply
pk
Hey Pkny,
In today's tough trading environment combined with a $150K trading account at a prop firm and a commission rate of around $1 per thousand shares (in addition to who knows what other charges a prop firm will bill you for, like desk and training fees) I'd say that making $100K-$150K will be EXTREMELY hard if not downright impossible to do on a consistent basis. The odds are stacked too high against a newbie. I would say that $50K a year is a realistic goal. If you don't have the ability to make $50K in another job, then by all means try prop trading. But remember, you won't be consistent for your first year or two so you better live with your parents for a while (if you have this luxury) and pack your lunches every day. That's why trading firms say that you should only trade with money you can afford to lose and you should have at least six months worth of savings to survive on.
In today's tough trading environment combined with a $150K trading account at a prop firm and a commission rate of around $1 per thousand shares (in addition to who knows what other charges a prop firm will bill you for, like desk and training fees) I'd say that making $100K-$150K will be EXTREMELY hard if not downright impossible to do on a consistent basis. The odds are stacked too high against a newbie. I would say that $50K a year is a realistic goal. If you don't have the ability to make $50K in another job, then by all means try prop trading. But remember, you won't be consistent for your first year or two so you better live with your parents for a while (if you have this luxury) and pack your lunches every day. That's why trading firms say that you should only trade with money you can afford to lose and you should have at least six months worth of savings to survive on.