Where did the "90% are losers myth come from?

[TommyHawk]

Quote from human151:

explain please.
unless your refering to investing as in long term buy and hold. But if you trade, that is a form of investing too.

lets not parse words here.

Well, you might as well begin your education right here.
There is as much difference between "trading" and
"investing" as between day and night.
There's so many clueless 'investors' who call themselves
'traders' because it's a fashionable term, promoted by the
media, who would run for cover at the thought of a short
sale or putting capital at risk with maybe 45 sec. to 1.5 min.
of analyss. As a trader, I don't even need to know what
business a company is in or even what it's NAME
is to be in and out with a profit before some "Ameritrader"
can even tear the quarterly report from it's envelope.

 

[Trump Incognito]

losers rejoice

I have a solution

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=161598

 

[spindr0]

Quote from Trump Incognito:

losers rejoice

I have a solution

Instead of all of the alias handles, why not just stick with INTERNET TROLL? Or if you want to sound a little more avant-garde, how about ET TROLL ?

 

[Big Money]

Human151,

My first piece of advice is go back to HS and learn at least basic spelling and grammar. Arguably, if you are too lazy to do the easy things well, you have no chance of competing with those who have more discipline, knowledge and skill in something as difficult as the discipline of trading.

We trade because people like you start trading and donating money because you didn’t do your homework first and thought it might be fun. We prefer not to do anything else and can live with being responsible for our actions. We are competitive and truly believe we can compete and be successful. We are disappointed in how many show up and think trading is something they can just pickup with little effort and without doing the bare minimum of homework. “You” show up every week. And ask the same questions that have been answered every week for the past five years. And as is also typical, when you hear the truth you get defensive about the big, mean community trying to help you in spite of yourself.

Most businesses fail and don’t make it to even 5 years. But most people, including you, don’t want to hear the truth. They want to believe in the dream. A least a franchise tells you exactly what to do and why. Trading expects you to figure it out. Most do not. So go ahead and dream. When you grow up and think you can make it, by all means take your shot. I hope you make it. But the percentages say you won’t and so far you haven’t shown much that will make most think you will fall in the minority of the successful.

Feel free to not believe "the myth." You can also believe in the tooth fairy. Neither will help you become a successful trader.

Do you want the truth or do you just want to hear what you think you want to hear to help you think you can do this? Because the latter is not going to help you at all and will probably cost you some money. Harsh? Maybe. But enter this field with your eyes wide open and try to fathom what you are really up against.

Best of luck.

BM

 

[slapshot]

Quote from Big Money:

Human151,

My first piece of advice is go back to HS and learn at least basic spelling and grammar. Arguably, if you are too lazy to do the easy things well, you have no chance of competing with those who have more discipline, knowledge and skill in something as difficult as the discipline of trading.

We trade because people like you start trading and donating money because you didn’t do your homework first and thought it might be fun. We prefer not to do anything else and can live with being responsible for our actions. We are competitive and truly believe we can compete and be successful. We are disappointed in how many show up and think trading is something they can just pickup with little effort and without doing the bare minimum of homework. “You” show up every week. And ask the same questions that have been answered every week for the past five years. And as is also typical, when you hear the truth you get defensive about the big, mean community trying to help you in spite of yourself.

Most businesses fail and don’t make it to even 5 years. But most people, including you, don’t want to hear the truth. They want to believe in the dream. A least a franchise tells you exactly what to do and why. Trading expects you to figure it out. Most do not. So go ahead and dream. When you grow up and think you can make it, by all means take your shot. I hope you make it. But the percentages say you won’t and so far you haven’t shown much that will make most think you will fall in the minority of the successful.

Feel free to not believe "the myth." You can also believe in the tooth fairy. Neither will help you become a successful trader.

Do you want the truth or do you just want to hear what you think you want to hear to help you think you can do this? Because the latter is not going to help you at all and will probably cost you some money. Harsh? Maybe. But enter this field with your eyes wide open and try to fathom what you are really up against.

Best of luck.

BM

Awesome post! Very true.

I regret how incredibly long it took me (and how much it cost) to learn one of the most simple, important things about trading:

"You don't have to be right, you just have to get on the right side" (of the market - i.e. stop trying to pick exact tops/bottoms and go with the flow = smaller losers + bigger winners + less risk)

 

[crgarcia]

Quote from human151:

I am by no means and proficient trader. Im still learning. That said, when I see people say that 90% lose when trading, I want to run for the hills.

If that were true, then how would all the brokerage firms, online or otherwise, who cater to the individual trader be able to stay alive. If 90% are losers then it seems logical that they would run out of customers because once everyone loses thier money they cant be a customer obviosly.

I know a few other people who trade consistently and they dont lose 90% of thier money. So are they the luck 10%? I doubt that.

If you do your research, learn to read the charts/trends and educate yourself how is it logical that 9 out of 10 trades are losers.

Doesent make sense.

Im just a guy looking to learn trading, as many others have and gain the knowledge to do it for a living, as many others have.

Can someone tell me why I am wrong?

That 90% lose is a myth.
Don't believe it.

99.9% lose is the exact fact!

 

[human151]

Quote from Big Money:

Human151,

My first piece of advice is go back to HS and learn at least basic spelling and grammar. Arguably, if you are too lazy to do the easy things well, you have no chance of competing with those who have more discipline, knowledge and skill in something as difficult as the discipline of trading.

We trade because people like you start trading and donating money because you didn’t do your homework first and thought it might be fun. We prefer not to do anything else and can live with being responsible for our actions. We are competitive and truly believe we can compete and be successful. We are disappointed in how many show up and think trading is something they can just pickup with little effort and without doing the bare minimum of homework. “You” show up every week. And ask the same questions that have been answered every week for the past five years. And as is also typical, when you hear the truth you get defensive about the big, mean community trying to help you in spite of yourself.

Most businesses fail and don’t make it to even 5 years. But most people, including you, don’t want to hear the truth. They want to believe in the dream. A least a franchise tells you exactly what to do and why. Trading expects you to figure it out. Most do not. So go ahead and dream. When you grow up and think you can make it, by all means take your shot. I hope you make it. But the percentages say you won’t and so far you haven’t shown much that will make most think you will fall in the minority of the successful.

Feel free to not believe "the myth." You can also believe in the tooth fairy. Neither will help you become a successful trader.

Do you want the truth or do you just want to hear what you think you want to hear to help you think you can do this? Because the latter is not going to help you at all and will probably cost you some money. Harsh? Maybe. But enter this field with your eyes wide open and try to fathom what you are really up against.

Best of luck.

BM

wow you're a nice guy. Learn basic spelling and grammar?

When did I say I wanted to "just pickup with little effort and without doing the bare minimum of homework"? You must have me confused with someone else. I'll bet you have been saving up your little rant for quite a while waiting to unleash it on some unsuspecting noob...does your tirade make you feel more important, uh? Trying to compensate? Its okay I understand. If this makes you feel important and "bigger" then by all means tell me more.

 

[rolextrader]

Quote from crgarcia:

That 90% lose is a myth.
Don't believe it.

99.9% lose is the exact fact!

According to Green & Company, the premier traders' tax accounting firm, the number of losers is closer to 95%.

 

[Sushi]

Quote from rolextrader:

According to Green & Company, the premier traders' tax accounting firm, the number of losers is closer to 95%.

Yes. Yet the assclowns on elite will argue about it. No wonder wallstreet is so rich and retail traders so poor

 

[asiaprop]

Well you completely omit the concept of expected returns. The odds in playing roulette are so much worse vs trading by a seasoned trader, who exhibits discipline, sound money management and risk taking, position sizing and above all, patience .

On the other side, yes, you are right, the average beginner is better off playing roulette than trading, absolutely right!!! The problem is most approach trading as some sort of game and get rich quick scheme and that usually kills them.

By the way, never underestimate the number of new incoming "meat". Believe it or not most brokerages can afford not to care at all and still make a decent living, merely by false advertisement and glossy ads. Sad but true...

Quote from human151:

"You are wrong because instead of trying to think of ways to make money you are trying to figure out what, if any, is wrong. That will take you nowhere, my advice to you."

and thank you for your advice.

im merely trying to gage the odds. If the 90% statement is true, my odds are better if I were to play roullette. But I think an educated investor has a better chance than betting on a roullette wheel.

But I may be wrong. Im just trying to decide if trading would be worth my time and effort and of course money, if I have a 90% chance of losing it all, just because thats what happens.