Whats going on with all these people ready to give up their rights?

[Tsing Tao]

Simple: don't run a business where you can't over years save enough to stay afloat for a few months. What a ridiculous notion. Do we need to bail out stupid business owners? What are we talking about? Someone running a business who can't make enough to put safety funds aside or does not believe they are needed should do something else. Simple as that. Show me a family run restaurant business that acted responsibly and will run out of resources in 3 or 4 months because the lock down lasts even longer and I will personally donate a significant enough sum to support their cause. I will tag the donation so you know it came from me (I always donate anonymously as matter of principle). Remind me and hold me to this in 3 or 4 months if you like or care. Those are the businesses we should support, nobody else. Let the rest sink, as soon as this is over new businesses that are better managed will emerge and hire millions of workers back. After all the American economy is unbreakable and fundamentally robust, correct?

You're really out there if you think that in a world where 70 percent of the population doesn't have $1000 in savings, and the majority of small business owners are run by mom and pops, you think its common to have a month or two of payroll and other expenses? Holy cow.

This makes like, 70 percent of the country's pubs, cafes and other small businesses "stupid" according to you because they were just eeking out a living. You're quite the privileged one, aren't you.

 

[Tsing Tao]

But are you suggesting then we simply lift all stay at home orders and just let people go on about their normal lives and take our chances? I understand the argument about the effect this lockdown has and will have but the alternative to go back to normal by next week seems like negligence.

Its not going to be next week. If it were, we wouldn't be discussing this.

 

[Tsing Tao]

An old Cherokee but ran 3 dojos? Heck, that did not seem to work out so well. So, can you explain to me then why we as tax payers should support your friend? Awesome conservative principle, privatize gains, socialize losses...

Conservative principle? No one is saying that person should be bailed out. All I'm saying is they shouldn't be closed uniformly like was mandated. They'd have been fine if they weren't put out for two months.

Running a dojo doesn't make one a millionaire. You know surprisingly little about small business ownership. Or at least you're pretending to.

As an aside, I notice you're "new" here. Can you tell me what previous moniker you were so we're both on equal footing? I mean, you didn't suddenly join this site and head right to politics, did you?

 

[CaptainObvious]

But are you suggesting then we simply lift all stay at home orders and just let people go on about their normal lives and take our chances? I understand the argument about the effect this lockdown has and will have but the alternative to go back to normal by next week seems like negligence.

No, but we are going to be faced with this very difficult decision before we can say with any degree of certainty that this virus is under control. We simply cannot wait to push the restart button until the all clear is given. I'm just trying to point out that all of us better be ready for either decision because this is a long, long ways from over, and act two comes around next winter. Then what?

 

[FrankInLa]

No, I don't think that. I think that responsible people should not have to cover for irresponsible people. Perhaps rather than singing glory hallelujah each 9/11 anniversary and constantly cumming on the constitution would it not be better to change such sad state of affairs? I and privileged? I worked myself up from the bottom and have lots of compassion for those who work hard and smart. But someone must be buying those damn brand spanking pickup trucks and suv each year, and looking at household debt it points to anything but smart living and working. But I digress, it's about a state of emergency.

So, bail out those who had no opportunity or choices to prepare for such times. A business who does not have reserves to survive several months without revenues should imho be left to its own devices. After all is said and done the economy will emerge and better businesses be built.

I talked enough about the economy. I am more concerned right now with playing my part to help reduce infections and hence deaths. I sourced masks when nobody could buy them in the city. And I do wear my mask when going out, not to protect myself but to protect others and to not be hypocritical moron who demands the same of others while blissfully ignoring medical expert advice.

You're really out there if you think that in a world where 70 percent of the population doesn't have $1000 in savings, and the majority of small business owners are run by mom and pops, you think its common to have a month or two of payroll and other expenses? Holy cow.

This makes like, 70 percent of the country's pubs, cafes and other small businesses "stupid" according to you because they were just eeking out a living. You're quite the privileged one, aren't you.

 

[FrankInLa]

Well, at least you made it crystal clear that you prefer to risk a few more infections and deaths over shutting your friend's germ laundry.

Conservative principle? No one is saying that person should be bailed out. All I'm saying is they shouldn't be closed uniformly like was mandated. They'd have been fine if they weren't put out for two months.

Running a dojo doesn't make one a millionaire. You know surprisingly little about small business ownership. Or at least you're pretending to.

As an aside, I notice you're "new" here. Can you tell me what previous moniker you were so we're both on equal footing? I mean, you didn't suddenly join this site and head right to politics, did you?

 

[Tsing Tao]

No, I don't think that. I think that responsible people should not have to cover for irresponsible people. Perhaps rather than singing glory hallelujah each 9/11 anniversary and constantly cumming on the constitution would it not be better to change such sad state of affairs? I and privileged? I worked myself up from the bottom and have lots of compassion for those who work hard and smart. But someone must be buying those damn brand spanking pickup trucks and suv each year, and looking at household debt it points to anything but smart living and working. But I digress, it's about a state of emergency.

So, bail out those who had no opportunity or choices to prepare for such times. A business who does not have reserves to survive several months without revenues should imho be left to its own devices. After all is said and done the economy will emerge and better businesses be built.

I talked enough about the economy. I am more concerned right now with playing my part to help reduce infections and hence deaths. I sourced masks when nobody could buy them in the city. And I do wear my mask when going out, not to protect myself but to protect others and to not be hypocritical moron who demands the same of others while blissfully ignoring medical expert advice.

First, I shouldn't have said you are privileged. I should have said you sure are acting privileged.

You can rant about the new cars/SUVs and the bailouts all you want - and we'd probably agree on most of those points.

Getting back on topic, the point of my argument is that the decision to lock people down is killing small businesses and many who cannot afford this. They won't recover. At a certain point we have consider this while we consider the best reaction (over-reaction) to the virus.

You didn't answer the question on your previous moniker.

 

[Tsing Tao]

Well, at least you made it crystal clear that you prefer to risk a few more infections and deaths over shutting your friend's germ laundry.

This is a random statement, devoid of any real content just to take a snarky shot at me. I hope you enjoyed it.

 

[Snarkhund]

that is my point.... since essential services people number in the millions we really don't know what the curves are.

and frankly... i obviously know that....

my wife is risking her health and by extension our family's health every time she goes to work.

but... I also know she and my daughter and friends and relatives in our area probably already had corona virus back in Jan and Feb. quite a few went to the hospital with serious flu and tested negative for the flu.

I almost took my wife to the hospital but we were at altitude at brianhead utah.

I packed up the family a day early and got her down the mountain as fast as i could... When she came down - by luck we switched from ibuprofen to tylenol and her lungs started to clear up. we did not know at the time ibuprofen might make the virus worse.

She was still sick for a week but her breathing was no longer a major issue.

Dude. Brian's Head is 9800 ft MSL.

Most people who are *visiting* that altitude are going to feel bad after about a week. My friends and family gather at a ski resort each year and the same ones get sick every year. Some get headaches but others get a bad cold. Its genetic. After years and years of it I know which ones to keep an eye on.

There used to be a facility on a mountaintop outside of Quito, Ecuador supporting the Deep Space Network and we would send people there... and they would drop dead. It kept happening for years until someone figured out it was altitude sickness. Then they required engineers to stay in Quito for 2 weeks before they went up to stay at the site and they stopped dying.

I used to be pretty unaffected by altitude. I've skied at 14,500 ft and had to climb up with gear the last 2000 feet. But now I feel it. In the winter I take a job at the local ski resort in exchange for a season pass and a locker and some other perks. Above 9000 I can literally feel shortness of breath, tightness in my chest and the need to stop occasionally.

 

[FrankInLa]

Absolutely agree with you on the consequences of a shut economy. We just disagree on the right course of action and whether to support ailing businesses that even in good times hardly survived. I have utter respect for anyone who runs a client facing business. I can't do it. But at the same time I would never engage in anything that would merely carry me from today to next week, only. Kudos to those risk takers and gun slingers.i just don't want my children to have to pay for their life choices. In a capitalist system a business is a free enterprise and profits and losses equally should accrue to the business owner.

First, I shouldn't have said you are privileged. I should have said you sure are acting privileged.

You can rant about the new cars/SUVs and the bailouts all you want - and we'd probably agree on most of those points.

Getting back on topic, the point of my argument is that the decision to lock people down is killing small businesses and many who cannot afford this. They won't recover. At a certain point we have consider this while we consider the best reaction (over-reaction) to the virus.

You didn't answer the question on your previous moniker.