Whats going on with all these people ready to give up their rights?

[Hotcakes]

I never talked about hospitalizations to start with. You probably confused someone else's post.

Yes, you did. Right here:

It's not just the number deaths. It's that the economy will anyway be completely crippled for many months if not over a year if infections will reach the majority in employment. Not everyone will get infected in the same 2 weeks. It will spread out over a long period of time and even if you let infected people work... their productivity would be so severely limited that it would have a much worse effect on the economy than shutting it down completely to bring the number of total infections down to manageable levels

You're making assumptions as to how many people will be "hospitalized" aka "cripple the economy". In order to know how many infected will be hospitalized or unable to work (aka...."cripple the economy"), we need accurate numbers.

And the numbers are showing its not that crippling (using "hospitalizations" as the metric!!).

The vast majority of COVID19 cases are asymptomatic (no symptoms) or mild. Meaning, people can and will continue to work right through it.

Does this make sense?

 

[jem]

you brought it up.

jobs being lost are in part due to govt edict.
they may have been lost anyway... but the extent will never be known.

This is a CV thread. How about you start a new thread on the oil price war if you like? What you are speaking of is not the result of the CV situation hence not under debate here.

 

[Frederick Foresight]

How can you know opening the economy sooner than later is not a better option when you can't even define sooner or later in real life.

And further on the matter of timing, when you're in the hospital recovering from a serious illness or operation, do you determine in advance when you will be leaving the hospital, or do you let the circumstances dictate the timing? If you decide to leave ten days after admittance, and you start bleeding out on day 9, do you still pack your bags? Things to do, places to be?

 

[FrankInLa]

What are you talking about. I did not even use the term hospitalization a single time in your referenced post. Nor did I allude to it. Read again. You are completely missing the point.

Yes, you did. Right here:



You're making assumptions as to how many people will be "hospitalized" aka "cripple the economy". In order to know how many infected will be hospitalized or unable to work (aka...."cripple the economy"), we need accurate numbers.

And the numbers are showing its not that crippling (using "hospitalizations" as the metric!!).

The vast majority of COVID19 cases are asymptomatic (no symptoms) or mild. Meaning, people can and will continue to work right through it.

Does this make sense?

 

[FrankInLa]

Dr Tao brought them up in a different context. Perhaps you want to take a break...

you brought it up.

jobs being lost are in part due to govt edict.
they may have been lost anyway... but the extent will never be known.

 

[El OchoCinco]

you are a smart guy... how would you prove your statement?
Data?
Expert guess?
Millions are in essential services and can not stay home...
they go home to family members every night.

What if the healthy were building antibodies at a much faster rate before the shut down... and now we are not?

What if the concern Fauci floated today is correct and we are going to experience this again in the fall.

you realize he is floating that out as his caveat if this shutdown turns out to be much less than optimal.

You know smart people are saying to him... this shutdown is wrecking our future. sure hope this works to stop the virus.

And he has to say...

Well I don't know... even if we slow the virius down now... it could come back when we cease social distancing.

Social distancing might fail.

Essential services are not ordered to stay home.

 

[FrankInLa]

Shocking how people can be so polarized on such straight forward issue. Health and lives over money, that is how we evolved as species. Hence we should listen to the experts that better understand how we minimize deaths rather than listen to those who tell us how we minimize economic pain. There is no easy solution to this challenging times. But there are some crystal clear priorities we should abide by. How that priority list is reversed for some will forever be a conundrum to me.

Happy discussion all and pls stay safe and act responsibly.

 

[Tsing Tao]

Charity? Did those businesses not have a choice to build rainy weather provisions? Airlines made hundreds of millions. All wasted on dividends and share buybacks. Not a single safety provision. It's not those who did not care that I worry about. Those who live from one debt and car loan and mortgage and home equity loan and credit card loan to the next and never cared to save deserve what is coming to them. No mercy. I care about those who lived a responsible life style but just never got the proper chance to earn a living wage and enough to save for bad days even if they wanted. Those are the ones we should support. Not some fucking airlines or businesses, large and small who over leveraged, never thought bad days might be around the corner. Those are businesses run by poor decision markers. But we keep on bailing them out and nothing changes.

If an oil and gas worker was employed till now and in demand then he will be equally in demand in a year. Again if someone lived a responsible life and worked hard and did not just consume every penny, earned, then such person will have provisions to feed a family for many month. Those who struggled before to make a living wage are the ones we should worry and care about. Your friend did not have certain insurance against disasters like this? No savings provisions to survive 6-8 months without customers? What car is he or she driving if i may ask?

We're not talking about the airline who squandered cash with stupid buybacks. We're talking about families that run local eateries and coffee shops and make razor thin margins and weren't able to put together rainy day funds, or don't have the ability to withstand a two to three month down time.

What insurance should they have had? Business interruption insurance is denying claims from pandemics - look it up. And she's driving an old Cherokee.

You're a little out of touch here.

 

[jem]

that is my point.... since essential services people number in the millions we really don't know what the curves are.

and frankly... i obviously know that....

my wife is risking her health and by extension our family's health every time she goes to work.

but... I also know she and my daughter and friends and relatives in our area probably already had corona virus back in Jan and Feb. quite a few went to the hospital with serious flu and tested negative for the flu.

I almost took my wife to the hospital but we were at altitude in brianhead utah.

I packed up the family a day early and got her down the mountain as fast as i could... When she came down - by luck we switched from ibuprofen to tylenol and her lungs started to clear up. we did not know at the time ibuprofen might make the virus worse.

She was still sick for a week but her breathing was no longer a major issue.

Essential services are not ordered to stay home.

 

[constitutionman]

that is my point...

you are incapable of making any points.