What We Can Learn From Liberals

[jeafl]

These are not mutually exclusive.

Give us your definition of liberal. Give us your definition of Christian. Tell us what one must believe and do to be a liberal. Tell us what one may not believe or do to be a liberal. Tell us what one must believe and do to be a Christian. Tell us what one may not believe or do to be a Christian.

Strict separation of Church and state is stated in the Constitution and is supported by Liberals and Christians alike.

Then what does the Constitution mean when it says in Article VII “…Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America the Twelfth. In Witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names.” Just who is this Lord the Constitution officially recognizes?

And the reason "Some Christians find prayer and religious displays in public (tax payer supported places) OK" (but not ALL) is because people may disagree on whether this violates the separation of Church and state.

Or, people like me don’t want the government and taxpayers promoting false Christianity. I certainly don’t want someone who reads the NIV or NASB to offer public prayers on my behalf. But, this does not mean that I see public prayers in themselves to be a violation of the Constitution.

 

[palmbeachdude]

Hey, one more conservative judge on the sup court and we'll see what is constitutional.

 

[james_bond_3rd]

Quote from jeafl:

Give us your definition of liberal. Give us your definition of Christian. Tell us what one must believe and do to be a liberal. Tell us what one may not believe or do to be a liberal. Tell us what one must believe and do to be a Christian. Tell us what one may not believe or do to be a Christian.



Then what does the Constitution mean when it says in Article VII “…Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America the Twelfth. In Witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names.” Just who is this Lord the Constitution officially recognizes?



Or, people like me don’t want the government and taxpayers promoting false Christianity. I certainly don’t want someone who reads the NIV or NASB to offer public prayers on my behalf. But, this does not mean that I see public prayers in themselves to be a violation of the Constitution.

I don't know about all Christians. It is clear in my mind that Jesus is a liberal. You can find out more about Jesus from this website:
http://www.jesusisaliberal.org/
So liberals and Christians are certainly not mutually exclusive.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

It's pretty clear to me.

And my point is consistent with yours: there is no agreement on whether public prayer is in violation of the Constitution. Even those who support public prayers are not objecting to the Constitution itself.

 

[james_bond_3rd]

Quote from jeafl:

Give us your definition of liberal. Give us your definition of Christian. Tell us what one must believe and do to be a liberal. Tell us what one may not believe or do to be a liberal. Tell us what one must believe and do to be a Christian. Tell us what one may not believe or do to be a Christian.

To be more specific, here is the wikipedia definition of "liberal:"
"Liberalism is an ideology, philosophical view, and political tradition which holds that liberty is the primary political value. Liberalism has its roots in the Western Enlightenment, but the term now encompasses a diversity of political thought.

Broadly speaking, contemporary liberalism emphasizes individual rights. It seeks a society characterized by freedom of thought for individuals, limitations on power, especially of government and religion, the rule of law, free public education, and progressive taxation, the free exchange of ideas, a market economy that supports relatively free private enterprise, and a transparent system of government in which the rights of all citizens are protected. In modern society, liberals favor a liberal democracy with open and fair elections, where all citizens have equal rights by law and an equal opportunity to succeed."

And here is the definition of Christian from Wikipedia:
"A Christian is a follower of Jesus of Nazareth, referred to as Christ. Christians believe Jesus to be the Son of God, who lived a life befitting that of the creator of the universe, free of sin, who at the end of his earthly life was crucified, and then on the third day, rose from the dead, and later ascended into heaven. These beliefs are held by the vast majority of Christian denominations.

Christians believe that Jesus offers salvation, and that it is only possible because of him. Christians are a part of Christianity. Christians identify themselves as monotheistic, believing that there is one God. Most sects incorporate God as a perichoresis of three persons: Father (the Source, the Eternal Majesty); the Son (the eternal Logos or Word, incarnate as Jesus of Nazareth); and the Holy Spirit (the Paraclete or advocate). Today, it is estimated that there are around 2.1 billion Christians in the world making up 33% of the world population, with the largest Christian denomination being Roman Catholicism."

I don't see how the two are mutually exclusive.

 

[TM_Direct]

Quote from james_bond_3rd:

To be more specific, here is the wikipedia definition of "liberal:"
"Liberalism is an ideology, philosophical view, and political tradition which holds that liberty is the primary political value. Liberalism has its roots in the Western Enlightenment, but the term now encompasses a diversity of political thought.
.

...unless of course you disagree with them and then you are blacklisted or censured

 

[james_bond_3rd]

Quote from TM_Direct:

...unless of course you disagree with them and then you are blacklisted or censured

Don't confuse extreme left with liberalism. The extreme left and the extreme right are the same (ever heard of facism?)

 

[palmbeachdude]

Quote from james_bond_3rd:

I don't know about all Christians. It is clear in my mind that Jesus is a liberal. You can find out more about Jesus from this website:
http://www.jesusisaliberal.org/
So liberals and Christians are certainly not mutually exclusive.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

It's pretty clear to me.

And my point is consistent with yours: there is no agreement on whether public prayer is in violation of the Constitution. Even those who support public prayers are not objecting to the Constitution itself.

I think you have pretty much touched upon the truth of the matter which is

A. liberals think you can find out who Jesus is from some liberal website somewhere.

B. conservative christians think you can find out about who Jesus is from the bible.

 

[TM_Direct]

Quote from james_bond_3rd:

Don't confuse extreme left with liberalism. The extreme left and the extreme right are the same (ever heard of facism?)

Yes, every time a Republican says something a liberal can't defend!

 

[james_bond_3rd]

Quote from palmbeachdude:

I think you have pretty much touched upon the truth of the matter which is

A. liberals think you can find out who Jesus is from some liberal website somewhere.

B. conservative christians think you can find out about who Jesus is from the bible.

Note the curious choice of words here: "conservative christians." So you agree that there are also "liberal christians."

"Liberals" don't think you can find out who Jesus is from some liberal website somewhere. Lazy people do.

Read the bible again. You'll be surprised how much Jesus agreed with liberalism.

 

[james_bond_3rd]

Quote from TM_Direct:

Yes, every time a Republican says something a liberal can't defend!

I didn't even see that you said anything meaningful. I was correcting your confusion.

Me: (quoting wikipedia) Liberalism believes liberty as a primary virtue.
You: Except when someone disagrees with you then you're blacklisted.
Me: Don't confuse liberalism with extremism.
You: You cannot defend liberalism. Hahaha
Are we talking about the same thing?