What We Can Learn From Liberals

[jeafl]

Because of modern communism and its complete failure, people have forgotten that the original Orthodox Christian Church was in fact, communist.

Prove it.

It is true that some Christians held communal property during the first few decades after the Resurrection. But, this did not include every Christian. Furthermore the property was held communally to make the propagation of the Gospel easier- it was a period of intense missionary activity and these Christians did not wish to be distracted by their own material goods. You did not have Christians living in stationary communes.

BTW: When you say Orthodox Christian do you mean simply 1st century Christians or do you mean the Eastern Orthodox Church- which did not come into existence until around 1000 AD?

 

[james_bond_3rd]

Quote from jeafl:

Is this really what was said? You can be a conservative and not be a Christian (a conservative Jew, for instance). But you cannot be a Christian if you are not a conservative.

Yes you can! According to ARIS (see my post above), Christians account for 76.5% of all Americans. On the other hand, only 32% of total population self-identify themselves as conservative (see the poll below). So you can certainly be a Christian without being a conservative.

Liberal-Conservative Self-Identification 1972-2004
http://www.umich.edu/~nes/nesguide/toptable/tab3_1.htm

 

[james_bond_3rd]

Quote from jeafl:

Prove it.

It is true that some Christians held communal property during the first few decades after the Resurrection. But, this did not include every Christian. Furthermore the property was held communally to make the propagation of the Gospel easier- it was a period of intense missionary activity and these Christians did not wish to be distracted by their own material goods. You did not have Christians living in stationary communes.

BTW: When you say Orthodox Christian do you mean simply 1st century Christians or do you mean the Eastern Orthodox Church- which did not come into existence until around 1000 AD?

You proved it for me here. I don't think that there is any dispute that the early Church was very much communist.

No I didn't mean the Eastern Orthodox Church.

 

[jeafl]

This kind of ignorance is shocking. Do you know how many Christians are in this country? According to the most recent ARIS study (that stands for American Religion Identification Study), the Christian population accounts for 76.5% of total Americans. Don't tell me that 76.5% of Americans are conservatives.

When it comes to libs, there is one thing you can count on- they will believe anything and everything, but the truth.

http://www.gc.cuny.edu/faculty/research_briefs/aris/coverage.htm

“One of the distinguishing features of this survey, as of its predecessor in 1990, is that respondents were asked to describe themselves in terms of religion with an open-ended question. Interviewers did not prompt or offer a suggested list of potential answers. Moreover, the self-description of respondents was not based on whether established religious bodies, institutions, churches, mosques or synagogues considered them to be members. Quite the contrary, the survey sought to determine whether the respondents themselves regarded themselves as adherents of a religious community. Subjective rather than objective standards of religious identification were tapped by the survey.”

In other words many people identified themselves as adherents to a particular religion when they, no doubt, had no clue about what that religion entailed. There can also be little doubt that some of the respondents would not count themselves among others respondents of the same religion. For example, both Baptists and Roman Catholics would count themselves as “Christian”, but neither would likely count the other as “Christian” because they have mutually exclusive beliefs. And some Baptists won’t even call themselves Protestant.

 

[james_bond_3rd]

Quote from jeafl:

I said your definition. Did you write the Wikipedia article?



In practical terms a liberal 1. Supports a social welfare state, i.e., tax payer funded charity. 2. Is generally pacifist even in the face of undeniable and unprovoked aggression. 3. Is given to licentious behavior on their own part or they find such behavior acceptable in others. 4. Prone to offer excuses for criminal behavior in themselves and others.



Then why did the Archbishop of Canterbury, who claims to be a Christian, once say the resurrection did not take place? And why do some self-proclaimed Christians say Jesus of Nazareth was only a man who was merely adopted by God as His son, i.e., Jesus is in no way God?



Then why do Roman Catholics, who claim to be Christian, say they can pray to the saints and the Virgin Mary and that they can obtain forgiveness for their sins from a priest?



Not all? How can two people be Christian when they don’t believe the exact same thing- especially something as important and the nature of God?



You don’t get out much, do you?

No, I didn't write the wikipedia definition. Just thought it would be convenient.

You're confusing the concept of liberalism, which is what's defined here, with derived beliefs or principles that many liberals may hold. The problem is, they may not agree among themselves on those secondary (here I mean derived, not unimportant) principles. So your attack is invalid.

You're substituting your own Christian belief with a generic definition of Christianity. I respect your belief. However, you cannot force me to use your belief to define Christianity.

According to generally accepted definition of Christianity, it is not mutually exclusive with liberalism.

 

[jeafl]

Yes you can! According to ARIS (see my post above),

Why, has your post become any more accurate since you made it? The ARIS study did not have any standard categories into which people were classified. Two people who have opposing beliefs cannot both be Christian simply because they both claim to be Christian.

 

[james_bond_3rd]

Quote from jeafl:

When it comes to libs, there is one thing you can count on- they will believe anything and everything, but the truth.

http://www.gc.cuny.edu/faculty/research_briefs/aris/coverage.htm

“One of the distinguishing features of this survey, as of its predecessor in 1990, is that respondents were asked to describe themselves in terms of religion with an open-ended question. Interviewers did not prompt or offer a suggested list of potential answers. Moreover, the self-description of respondents was not based on whether established religious bodies, institutions, churches, mosques or synagogues considered them to be members. Quite the contrary, the survey sought to determine whether the respondents themselves regarded themselves as adherents of a religious community. Subjective rather than objective standards of religious identification were tapped by the survey.”

In other words many people identified themselves as adherents to a particular religion when they, no doubt, had no clue about what that religion entailed. There can also be little doubt that some of the respondents would not count themselves among others respondents of the same religion. For example, both Baptists and Roman Catholics would count themselves as “Christian”, but neither would likely count the other as “Christian” because they have mutually exclusive beliefs. And some Baptists won’t even call themselves Protestant.

Therein lies the real truth. So it is your belief that Baptists and Roman Catholics hold mutually exclusive beliefs.

That defines the meaning of your "mutually exclusive." I have no further argument.

 

[james_bond_3rd]

Quote from jeafl:

Why, has your post become any more accurate since you made it? The ARIS study did not have any standard categories into which people were classified. Two people who have opposing beliefs cannot both be Christian simply because they both claim to be Christian.

Hey, it's your claim against theirs. Which side should I believe?

 

[TM_Direct]

Quote from jeafl:

Why, has your post become any more accurate since you made it? The ARIS study did not have any standard categories into which people were classified. Two people who have opposing beliefs cannot both be Christian simply because they both claim to be Christian.

Now Im confused....wouldn't the Episcopal Church vs the Catholic church be stark opposites on beliefs of social issues but the same in their acceptance of Christ as the son of God?

 

[jeafl]

You proved it for me here. I don't think that there is any dispute that the early Church was very much communist.

This is not what I said. There is no commandment in the Bible that Christians be communist or that they hold property in common. Some early Christians did have communal property; other Christians did not. You cannot legitimately say that the church, i.e., the entire group of Christians, was communist because the church was not communist because some Christians retained their own personal property.

No I didn't mean the Eastern Orthodox Church.

Then say what you mean and give some indication to the educated among us that you actually know what you are talking about.