what to do when you're screwed

gordon,

you are 24 so im sure this will be lost on you. you have your health. be grateful. you didnt conquer the market just 6 years out of high school - big deal!

i still work full-time and trade part-time, which is difficult. when i say part-time, ill trade only the mornings for a while then trade a a full day or two. i have to work the weekends to offset the days that i trade. it is hard to maintain the flow. sometimes i go weeks without trading, but i stay in touch via IBD or watching my trading computers during the day. the market will be there when i have time.

right now, i earn too much in my profession to let go of the "rope." it would just be plain stupid to stop working now. recently, my main client was bought-out, so i might try to play out this cycle in my business while targeting clients that are easy to maintain and work only part-time. the market will be there when i make the transition, be it this week or 5 years from now. the market will be there - there is no rush.

originally, i channel traded and had great success - i would take what i believed were perfect set-ups with great risk/reward ratios - very simple approach really... then i got two cocky - started lifting stops. then i tried to do too many things, then my business got busier... i had too much going - then, predictably, i had a bad stretch trading - gave all the gains back. so i stopped for 4-5 months... i just stopped trading although i would leave my trading system on while i worked. the only direct advice i will give you - scared money and a scarred psyche almost guarantee defeat, so stop beating yourself up - dont talk bad about yourself - this is part of your journey. over a 40-year career a bad stretch is to be expected. losing damages your psyche more deeply than it damages your trading account. i know, i went to a shrink for years and at one point i worked very diligently on my trading psyche.

right now, i trade one stock via a system (scalping) that a buddy and i worked out over the past few years. that's right over the past few YEARS. it works - it is consistently profitable. its a little esoteric, but we have tweaked it many, many times, paid our dues and it works. still, i plan to take a boot camp and may go to a prop firm for a while to broaden my knowledge. kind of like foundational/continuing education. i am self-taught and there are bound to be huge holes in my knowledge.

i plan to pay my home mortgage off in the next six months (before trading full-time) and increase income from investments to have a "base" cash flow coming in. i will continue to work part-time as i transition. in that same six month's time i will get additional education and trade as much as possible. i have a fat wad to fall back on that is not a part of my trading funds. this is not bragging, but it has taken YEARS to get to this point - and i still might fail - but i dont think so. i would have liked it to happen sooner, but this is what it has taken for me.

my point is, it has taken time. and there have been set-backs. hell, i didnt want my best client to get bought-out and have to find other clients (at the SAME TIME that i am actually phasing out of my profession/business). i have a medical issue that i never dreamed i would have. i have no advice for you, since i am not qualified other than i dont think scared money wins. and beating yourself up is not a bad habit - it is something that cannot be tolerated. critique your trades - fine - but, dont belittle yourself. it seems you may not drive a new car for awhile - big deal! and you may have to get a JOB for a while. it wont kill you, but it may give you a greater appreciation of the freedom of trading and being self-sufficient.

on a lighter note, i read a thread a while back that said "if you are losing all your trades - figure out what you are doing and go the opposite direction."

good luck gordon.
 
GG,

You talk about walking away from trading like its a bad thing. For you at present it is the best thing you can do.

At the moment you're like the champion golfer who just lost his swing.

Everytime you try and correct your swing you end up supercompensating and everything feels and looks out of whack.

I've been where your are three times in 6 years. Walk away. Cancel your esignal account. Transfer your remaining funds into a cash management account.

Go and take up a martial art, or do yoga. When you physically feel better you mentally perform better. It's like defragging the hard drive in your head. These can help to to mentally focus, as well as remove tension from your body that accumulates at the desk.

Sell your car, and buy a bike. The world looks different of a bike.

Get a job doing something other than trading for a while. Something you think you might enjoy. Bar tender or something. Anything. Just release yourself from the pressure you are putting yourself under. I can actually feel your frustration in your language, and it is the very thing that's crippling you.

Even take a trip somewhere you've always been interested in travelling to.

Do not look at the markets for a few months. Do not read the paper. Read a few books on stuff completely unrelated to trading.

Do not read ET for a while. This too is part of your problem. Your answers are not to be found here.

You need to regroup.

Then and only then in 3 or 4 months. Sit down and start to look at the markets. Don't trade. Just watch. And watch and watch. Then after a few more months. Transfer some money into your trading account and trade small. Only trade a trade if you know it will be a winner. You may have to wait two weeks. But one will come. And it will be be profitable. Then wait for another trade your know will be profitable. It will come to

This is what you need to do. It may seem like a long way to go, to come back a winner, but it is absolutely necessary if you wish to succeed long term.

Runningbear
 
get off this treadmill, disappear for at least half a year http://lonelyplanet.com/ , go cold turkey (no more elite, no more market) take a couple of books with you (not trading book, I think you have seen enough), find yourself, rememberThe Power Is Yours
 
Sorry to hear about your situation. I lost most of my money at one point somewhere around your age...."trading" sugar of all things. Worse, I had done a fairly sophisticated fundamental analysis of the sugar market at the time. It ended up doing exactly what I thought it would do a few months after I had bombed out...the hell as you know was all in the timing.

My advice to you would be to get a job. I agree with the idea that scared money is going to lose. If you're convinced that you want to be a trader, then think of this job as a temporary thing...something to help you get back on track. You might try to find something that will enable you to spend your days observing the markets. It really doesn't matter especially what the job is Gordon, just get some money coming in...give yourself a breather. But again, if you can get a job that still enables you to pursue you trading, that would be best in my opinion.

I don't know what type of trading you've been trying. But understand this, most of the best traders around DO NOT day trade. The reason for this is that it's VERY difficult to walk in every day and know what to do. Most of the really successful traders learn how to wait patiently for just the right situation, and then take advantage of it....sitting in the position patiently while it develops into fruition.

Go back and read Jesse Livermore's book. It will confirm what I'm saying to you above. Or perhaps do a little reading about Richard Dennis, perhaps one of the most successful modern day traders.

Don't know if you ever read the Edwards and McGee book, Technical Analysis of Stock Trends. But if you haven't, it's the bible. And charts today are still doing what is represented in the book. I'd also read some Vic Sperandeo to go along with it.

Take some time to learn some effective setups, and to get your life back into order. Understand that you're not looking for the holy grail. There isn't one. You're looking for some high odds situations where you can take a reasonable risk for a possible high return. And do not ever forget that the trend is your friend.

Good luck in whatever you decide.

OldTrader
 
Gordon, out of many posters on this board, you're definitely in the top handful I have a lot of respect for. And it's not because you're such a great trader and making so much money and have so much great trading insight. Currently, you don't really have any of that. The reason is I really admire you is your sincerity, your determination, and your strive for knowledge. The fact is many many people on ET will deeply identify with your situation with one variation or another. But very few are willing to admit it, let alone publicly talk about it. All (ok most:) of the questions you asked on this board are the questions I believe all struggling traders ask at one point or another. And you've asked those questions and generated very good discussions. You've gottten both the cynical, superficial and the real, real-substance answers. I think you've hit the bottom, just like an alcoholic hits THE bottom. It's either death, or the start of the climb back up. I'm sure its not the former, because it surely doesn't look like you're gonna quit. In my opinion, if you keep hammering away at this til you die and go thru great sacrifices and still never get to the elusive "THERE", you're still 100x better than the person who gave up after Z years (provided it was a very significant goal for that person). And don't feel bad whatsover, you're much closer to THERE than many people who are still in denial and really hate to talk about their losing trading.
 
I've been there. Very recently in fact. After 7 months of trading like a leaf in the wind, I had two months of living expenses left in my bank account. That's when I finally realized that passive learning doesn't work. You have to WANT IT.

I had 2 choices:
1. figure out a way to succeed
2. go get a job

So I started to write down EVERY SINGLE THING I DID. And then reviewed that EVERY SINGLE DAY to learn what I was doing right and what I was doing wrong. A month later I went profitable.

No offense, but you're not going to make it Gekko. You keep coming back here for the answer.
 
Originally posted by ThoughtfulFog

I've been there. Very recently in fact. After 7 months of trading like a leaf in the wind, I had two months of living expenses left in my bank account. That's when I finally realized that passive learning doesn't work. You have to WANT IT.

I had 2 choices:
1. figure out a way to succeed
2. go get a job

So I started to write down EVERY SINGLE THING I DID. And then reviewed that EVERY SINGLE DAY to learn what I was doing right and what I was doing wrong. A month later I went profitable.
More...

This is exactly what I am doing after failing overall for months and it has made a huge difference for the better.

The first thing I noticed while documenting my trades and later reviewing them (with my wife, for another point of view) is that I overtraded.

Then I started to see that I entered trades without real setups.

Then I started to see that I usually traded without checking current Trend and Support/Resitance.

Then I started to see which trades are working and which ones aren't.

IT CAN BE DONE - WHAT ARE YOU WILLING TO DO TO FACE THE TRUTH ABOUT HOW YOU TRADE?

Best,

Paul
 
I am with Nitro on this one!

Your trading needs to be taken apart in order to be put back together in good working order.

You made a first step, GG – take another one.

We are on your side!
 
Gordon,

sorry to hear of your situation.. in some ways i can relate.. i know the frustration you are describing.. ive been through periods of weeks where every day i come in and make money, stay disciplined and trading feels like the easiest and most natural thing in the world.. followed of course by weeks of coming in and having every single thing i do or think turn to crap.. i knew that my problem wasnt a lack of knowledge, so in recent months ive done a tremendous amount of soul searching, trying to understand why i have this self-destruct tendency.. and i have identified and corrected my thinking in several areas.. in fact, i never realized it before but many of the issues ive had to work through were affecting other areas of my life as well, not just trading..

its been said that the market is like a mirror.. i think most people fail at trading because they deny the reflection the market is showing them is a true representation.. others fail because they think the way to change the reflection is to tweak or learn more about the mirror.. eventually we discover that the only way to change the reflection, is to change ourselves.. which is difficult because then we have to own up to our faults, sometimes faults that we have spent our entire lives denying or ignoring..

just my thoughts.. good luck..

-qwik
 
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