What price religion?

>These were part of the law and you and I both
>know that Christians were released from the law.

Shoe, apparently the christians weren't released from ALL laws. Would you mind letting us know which laws still apply and which ones the christians were "released" from. Or are you of the belief that one can accept (be saved) and the enter heaven as a serial rapist who moments before his death unremorsefully defiles his last victim?

I don't think it's as obvious as you make it sound and I think we'll find there quite a bit of *interpretation* involved (I know, I know, you don't like that word).

Thanks

JB
 
Quote from Turok:

>These were part of the law and you and I both
>know that Christians were released from the law.

Shoe, apparently the christians weren't released from ALL laws. Would you mind letting us know which laws still apply and which ones the christians were "released" from. Or are you of the belief that one can accept (be saved) and the enter heaven as a serial rapist who moments before his death unremorsefully defiles his last victim?

I don't think it's as obvious as you make it sound and I think we'll find there quite a bit of *interpretation* involved (I know, I know, you don't like that word).

Thanks

JB
More...

Most Christians I know feel obligated to follow the Old Testament (since it is Scripture) unless the New Testament specifically releases them from doing so. The New Testament is extremely clear that believers are under no obligation to follow the Law and every example Axe gave was clearly the Law.
 
The argument that I see repeatedly is essentially:

"The Law is unfair, therefore God doesn't exist."

The above argument is weak at best. In fact, the most it can really prove is that God is unfair and of course that is highly arguable.

The fact is though that if there is a God, He appears to know exactly what He was doing. It's hard to argue with success: the Jewish nation clearly survived through a very hostile period of history for 1000+ years and in my opinion were a very admirable ethic and cultural and relgious group even looking at it from a "secular" standpoint.

I think the ACLU-esque philosophy that most of you guys are proposing would have destroyed Israel - they would have been a blip on the historical radar screen.

Instead, we have a very admirable Jewish nation and people that have contributed immeasurably to planet earth...
 
>Or are you of the belief that one can accept (be saved)
>and the enter heaven as a serial rapist who moments
>before his death unremorsefully defiles his last victim?

So you apparently believe the above?

>The New Testament is extremely clear that believers are
>under no obligation to follow the Law and every example
>Axe gave was clearly the Law.

If it were *extremely* clear there wouldn't be so many different interpretations -- may devout and studied chrisitians don't believe the above to be the correct biblical interpretation.

JB
 
>The argument that I see repeatedly is essentially:
>"The Law is unfair, therefore God doesn't exist."

You must be off on another thread or you are hearing things in your head because that argument has only been floated here by you.

JB
 
Ezekiel 39:24 says in regard to Isreal. "I turned my face away and punished them in proportion to the vileness of their sins."

When Isreal sinned God did what He said and when they repented He forgave and restored them. They are a strong and remarkable people even in the face of the whole world seeming to always be against them. The problem for them and for us is that we really don't think we deserve what we get. Most of the atheists have a major sin in their lives that they don't want to admit and deal with so they instead attack the moral laws and those that choose to obey them to try to aleviate their own problems. Guess what, it doesn't work.
 
>The fact is though that if there is a God, He appears
>to know exactly what He was doing. It's hard to argue
>with success: the Jewish nation clearly survived through
>a very hostile period of history for 1000+ years

I am particularly impressed with the techniques the all powerful God used to save the Jews during WW2. Getting a few hundred thousand god fearing Allied troops killed had to be the best way since he appears to know exactly what he is doing.

It could be no more obvious than in this case that you first draw the conclusion (god knows exactly what he is doing) and then simply assert that the facts fit the conclusion. Amazing.

JB

PS (for the record I believe we did the right thing in WW2 as best we could...a god of any quality with direct interest in our well being would have had a much better solution (how about killing all the german babies...NOT))
 
>The problem for them and for us is that we really
>don't think we deserve what we get.

That's a problem that both of your groups should solve.

>Most of the atheists have a major sin in their lives
>that they don't want to admit and deal with

I guess you must be keeping track of them pretty closely.

Talk about a canned response.

JB
 
Quote from Turok:

>The argument that I see repeatedly is essentially:
>"The Law is unfair, therefore God doesn't exist."

You must be off on another thread or you are hearing things in your head because that argument has only been floated here by you.

JB
More...

C'mon. You guys are constantly arguing against hell, the old testament Law, etc. because you think it is unfair and are hoping to show that is a bunch of fabricated nonsense.

If you are not arguing that, then why even bring it up?
 
Quote from Turok:

>Or are you of the belief that one can accept (be saved)
>and the enter heaven as a serial rapist who moments
>before his death unremorsefully defiles his last victim?

So you apparently believe the above?

JB
More...

Personally, I think that while it is theoretically possible it is practically impossible. No serial rapist is going to truly change his life around in short order before his sentencing and death. But that's just my opinion of course.

And this goes back to an important underlying question:

If there is a God, why not leave the really tough cases to Him? If there is a God, then only He would have the wisdom and understanding to judge in this kind of difficult case.

I don't understand what you're getting at here....
 
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