What price religion?
- Thread starter spect8or
- Start date
Me:
>Or are you of the belief that one can accept (be saved)
>and the enter heaven as a serial rapist who moments
>before his death unremorsefully defiles his last victim?
>Personally, I think that while it is theoretically possible it
>is practically impossible. No serial rapist is going to truly
>change his life around in short order before his sentencing
>and death. But that's just my opinion of course.
>snip>
>I don't understand what you're getting at here....
It's clear from your response that you don't understand my question. The hypothetical serial rapist is not turning his life around just before his sentencing and death. This particular serial rapist was sincerely saved at 30 and now in his 40s has turned to the "devil" and has brutalized many women. He has been caught, tried, sentenced and executed unremorsefully.
In your theological world is the savage going to heaven to spend eternity with his maker?
JB
>Or are you of the belief that one can accept (be saved)
>and the enter heaven as a serial rapist who moments
>before his death unremorsefully defiles his last victim?
>Personally, I think that while it is theoretically possible it
>is practically impossible. No serial rapist is going to truly
>change his life around in short order before his sentencing
>and death. But that's just my opinion of course.
>snip>
>I don't understand what you're getting at here....
It's clear from your response that you don't understand my question. The hypothetical serial rapist is not turning his life around just before his sentencing and death. This particular serial rapist was sincerely saved at 30 and now in his 40s has turned to the "devil" and has brutalized many women. He has been caught, tried, sentenced and executed unremorsefully.
In your theological world is the savage going to heaven to spend eternity with his maker?
JB
Quote from axeman:
Oh really? Please explain and quote the parts of the
new bible which explicitly state that the OLD bible is invalid
and should be ignored.
Then explain why THE BIBLE is so fallible
Was god WRONG back then? Did this perfect god make MISTAKES???
Please explain.
The Old Testament served many purposes but one of them was for a Jewish nation in its historical context.
Even a casual reading of the the New Testament shows it was clearly "designed" to be taken cross culturally to nations that are ruled by secular governments, etc. That is one reason why - and it's all over the New Testament so you can look it up yourself - Christians are not obligated to follow the Law.
I know you (to say the least) give no credence to the Bible. But the strange thing to me is that a HUGE point in the New Testament is that the Christian is no longer under the Law. Are you seriously arguing that Christians should disobey this major theme of the New Testament and go back under the law? I just don't get it...
To summarize: the Old Testament was perfect for the Jewish nation and made them into one of the greatest and successful peoples on earth.
The New Testament is for non-Jews and has been highly successful as well.
You're mixing "apples and oranges"....
I believe in the simultaneity of free will and foreknowledge, again a byproduct of multidimensionality, which would allow God to know that this person would never be "saved", i.e. that this individual was not "the real deal".
In other words, this guy was nothing but a poser - of which there are many - who was never really "saved" in the first place.
He looked good on the outside, went through the religious motions and fooled everybody except God....
Sounds like one huge cop out to me Shoe.
Again I ask you.... WHERE in the new bible does it
explicitly say that the OLD testament should be ignored?
Also... dont dodge the questions.
WHY was god so wrong then? Why command to kill,
and then uncommand to kill? Sounds like he is seriously bi-polar
I can only assume...like all books of mythology... the reason
there are so many problems is because the first book
was designed and written by humans and so was the second
book. Lets face it... religion had a marketing strategy that
worked in the OLD testament. FEAR. But then that started
to fail... so the dudes wrote a NEW testament after the OLD
started getting unpopular.
It's full of flaws and problems like this because its 100%
human generated. To use your own words... this is
EXACTLY what I would EXPECT if there was no god and
humans had to make it up
peace
axeman
Again I ask you.... WHERE in the new bible does it
explicitly say that the OLD testament should be ignored?
Also... dont dodge the questions.
WHY was god so wrong then? Why command to kill,
and then uncommand to kill? Sounds like he is seriously bi-polar
I can only assume...like all books of mythology... the reason
there are so many problems is because the first book
was designed and written by humans and so was the second
book. Lets face it... religion had a marketing strategy that
worked in the OLD testament. FEAR. But then that started
to fail... so the dudes wrote a NEW testament after the OLD
started getting unpopular.
It's full of flaws and problems like this because its 100%
human generated. To use your own words... this is
EXACTLY what I would EXPECT if there was no god and
humans had to make it up
peace
axeman
Hey Turok. I read that you didn't go to public school. Glad to hear that. I did, and I've been sorry ever since. 
That was unnecessary for me to have said that about you, so sorry.
I do find it sort of hilarious, and tragic at the same time, to read through some of the nonsense you naysayers spew forth. Talk about distortions!
There is so much information available, documented, much of it scientific (archaeology for example), soundly and reasonably argued to defend Biblical Christianity. I could provide so many quotes from scholarly men and women who have spent a lifetime in answering your nonsense, but I just don't have time. I'm actually trying to learn how to trade/invest right now.
But why would I want to spend my time in providing the quotes? Most of you are not sincere and have no intention of trying to understand, and worse, you do your very best to distort what it says. You simply hate the person who reveals himself in the Bible as God. Why, if, as you claim, such a person doesn't even exist?
That was unnecessary for me to have said that about you, so sorry. I do find it sort of hilarious, and tragic at the same time, to read through some of the nonsense you naysayers spew forth. Talk about distortions!
There is so much information available, documented, much of it scientific (archaeology for example), soundly and reasonably argued to defend Biblical Christianity. I could provide so many quotes from scholarly men and women who have spent a lifetime in answering your nonsense, but I just don't have time. I'm actually trying to learn how to trade/invest right now.
But why would I want to spend my time in providing the quotes? Most of you are not sincere and have no intention of trying to understand, and worse, you do your very best to distort what it says. You simply hate the person who reveals himself in the Bible as God. Why, if, as you claim, such a person doesn't even exist?
But why would I want to spend my time in providing the quotes? Most of you are not sincere and have no intention of trying to understand, and worse, you do your very best to distort what it says. You simply hate the person who reveals himself in the Bible as God. Why, if, as you claim, such a person doesn't even exist?
Nice poisoning the well fallacy. The real question should be, why
should rational non-believers waste their time with posts
like this which use fallacious logic, provide no MEAT, attack their
opponents, completely FRONT, pretend they have the answers
and then conveniently bow out???
The fact is... in my case... your dealing with an EX-theist
who WAS sincere in his beliefs. But as he grew up and learned
to think properly, shed himself of all the BUNK he was brainwashed
with as a child. This stuff is not only bunk, its OBVIOUSLY bunk
to a third person who is free to THINK FOR THEMSELVES.
There is so much information available, documented, much of it scientific (archaeology for example), soundly and reasonably argued to defend Biblical Christianity.
Again.... more empty assertions. There is NOT A SINGLE ARTIFACT
from jesus himself. Not ONE. I wonder why?
Since you probly only read CHURCH based material, and
theistic based material, your probably completely unware of
how extremely WEAK the historical evidence for a jesus really is.
You are completely unaware of the jesus stories existing in
OLDER religions BEFORE jesus was born. Care to explain that?
Didnt think so.
peace
axeman
Nice poisoning the well fallacy. The real question should be, why
should rational non-believers waste their time with posts
like this which use fallacious logic, provide no MEAT, attack their
opponents, completely FRONT, pretend they have the answers
and then conveniently bow out???
The fact is... in my case... your dealing with an EX-theist
who WAS sincere in his beliefs. But as he grew up and learned
to think properly, shed himself of all the BUNK he was brainwashed
with as a child. This stuff is not only bunk, its OBVIOUSLY bunk
to a third person who is free to THINK FOR THEMSELVES.
There is so much information available, documented, much of it scientific (archaeology for example), soundly and reasonably argued to defend Biblical Christianity.
Again.... more empty assertions. There is NOT A SINGLE ARTIFACT
from jesus himself. Not ONE. I wonder why?
Since you probly only read CHURCH based material, and
theistic based material, your probably completely unware of
how extremely WEAK the historical evidence for a jesus really is.
You are completely unaware of the jesus stories existing in
OLDER religions BEFORE jesus was born. Care to explain that?
Didnt think so.
peace
axeman
Quote from slowtrend:
Hey Turok. I read that you didn't go to public school. Glad to hear that. I did, and I've been sorry ever since.
I do find it sort of hilarious, and tragic at the same time, to read through some of the nonsense you naysayers spew forth. Talk about distortions!
There is so much information available, documented, much of it scientific (archaeology for example), soundly and reasonably argued to defend Biblical Christianity. I could provide so many quotes from scholarly men and women who have spent a lifetime in answering your nonsense, but I just don't have time. I'm actually trying to learn how to trade/invest right now.
But why would I want to spend my time in providing the quotes? Most of you are not sincere and have no intention of trying to understand, and worse, you do your very best to distort what it says. You simply hate the person who reveals himself in the Bible as God. Why, if, as you claim, such a person doesn't even exist?
Quote from axeman:
Sounds like one huge cop out to me Shoe.
Again I ask you.... WHERE in the new bible does it
explicitly say that the OLD testament should be ignored?
Also... dont dodge the questions.
WHY was god so wrong then? Why command to kill,
and then uncommand to kill? Sounds like he is seriously bi-polar
I can only assume...like all books of mythology... the reason
there are so many problems is because the first book
was designed and written by humans and so was the second
book. Lets face it... religion had a marketing strategy that
worked in the OLD testament. FEAR. But then that started
to fail... so the dudes wrote a NEW testament after the OLD
started getting unpopular.
It's full of flaws and problems like this because its 100%
human generated. To use your own words... this is
EXACTLY what I would EXPECT if there was no god and
humans had to make it up
peace
axeman
Jewish Law is for a Jewish nation that started with an entirely Jewish population.
Of course, God isn't going to suggest that Christians go into a religiously and ethnically diverse nation and kill all non-Christians. I don't know how you can even suggest that.
Israel was very unique historically: it started out 100% Jewish and the message was clear: if you don't want to be Jewish or follow Jewish Law, go somewhere else.
This is not the case in the New Testament nor the message of the New Testament...
>Hey Turok. I read that you didn't go to public school. Glad to
>hear that. I did, and I've been sorry ever since. That
>was unnecessary for me to have said that about you, so
>sorry.
Np Slow. You only need to ask.
>I could provide so many quotes from scholarly men
>and women who have spent a lifetime in answering
>your nonsense,
And conversely there so many quotes from the scholars who would refute your scholars and so on and so on and so on. Each of us must come to our own conclusions about the intent of such scholars and also study ourselves. You have (I assume) and I have.
>But why would I want to spend my time in providing
>the quotes? Most of you are not sincere
I am so impressed that you have the capability to know such things. Just like you haven't a clue regarding my schooling you haven't a clue regarding my sincerity.
>You simply hate the person who reveals himself in the Bible
>as God. Why, if, as you claim, such a person doesn't even
>exist?
I am incapable of hate for something that I don't believe exists. What I do detest however is the commonly attributed god that reveals himself through many of his followers. This manifestation is quite real to those around them and frankly, if I were their god and had the capabilities that they say, I would really be pissed at the way they represent me.
JB
>hear that. I did, and I've been sorry ever since.
That >was unnecessary for me to have said that about you, so
>sorry.
Np Slow. You only need to ask.
>I could provide so many quotes from scholarly men
>and women who have spent a lifetime in answering
>your nonsense,
And conversely there so many quotes from the scholars who would refute your scholars and so on and so on and so on. Each of us must come to our own conclusions about the intent of such scholars and also study ourselves. You have (I assume) and I have.
>But why would I want to spend my time in providing
>the quotes? Most of you are not sincere
I am so impressed that you have the capability to know such things. Just like you haven't a clue regarding my schooling you haven't a clue regarding my sincerity.
>You simply hate the person who reveals himself in the Bible
>as God. Why, if, as you claim, such a person doesn't even
>exist?
I am incapable of hate for something that I don't believe exists. What I do detest however is the commonly attributed god that reveals himself through many of his followers. This manifestation is quite real to those around them and frankly, if I were their god and had the capabilities that they say, I would really be pissed at the way they represent me.
JB