What If...

Coins · May 31, 2004

This subject has been plaguing me for awhile now.

We have seen how uncivilized and barbaric (I'd love to get an Iraqi chick in bed) Iraqis are since we so graciously removed their brutal tyrant Saddam off of them by the blood of our US soldiers.

What if... Saddam was simply a natural progression of leadership among the nation of Iraq?

What if... it took the likes of a brutal dictator with his primative means of torture and his army of "thugs" to keep these people subdued?

The key what if ... after Bush hands over Iraq to the local people in June, the inner core group of extremely violent Iraqis (who Saddam had subdued during his dictatorship) continue fighting and warring, faction against faction, causing so much civil unrest that the majority of Iraqis clearly see how much better off in comparison they were WITH Saddam in power that they beginning wanting Saddam and his group back in power in order to keep the violent Iraqis in line??

What if Saddam's brutal ways of torture were THE ONLY WAY to deal with and handle this base culture of primative and violent people?

What is going to happen to Bush's plan/campaign then?

sulong · May 31, 2004

Quote from Coins:

The key what if ... after Bush hands over Iraq to the local people in June

Bush will "NOT" hand over anything to the "local" people.

He's handing it over to 20+ years exiles.

There's a big difference.

maxpi · May 31, 2004

Quote from Coins:

This subject has been plaguing me for awhile now.

We have seen how uncivilized and barbaric (I'd love to get an Iraqi chick in bed) Iraqis are since we so graciously removed their brutal tyrant Saddam off of them by the blood of our US soldiers.

What if... Saddam was simply a natural progression of leadership among the nation of Iraq?

What if... it took the likes of a brutal dictator with his primative means of torture and his army of "thugs" to keep these people subdued?

The key what if ... after Bush hands over Iraq to the local people in June, the inner core group of extremely violent Iraqis (who Saddam had subdued during his dictatorship) continue fighting and warring, faction against faction, causing so much civil unrest that the majority of Iraqis clearly see how much better off in comparison they were WITH Saddam in power that they beginning wanting Saddam and his group back in power in order to keep the violent Iraqis in line??

What if Saddam's brutal ways of torture were THE ONLY WAY to deal with and handle this base culture of primative and violent people?

What is going to happen to Bush's plan/campaign then?

The people aren't that bad at all. I know many here in Southern California, I joke about them from time to time but basically they are shaped by their krappy 10th century culture in Iraq of recent years, give them democracy, high speed internet and DirecTv and they will do fine. One of the guys I knew invented our cell phone system, another one made major contributions to the development of modern electronics, not lacking in intellect at all, they just need to get out from under the 10th century thinking of the jihad guys.

hapaboy · May 31, 2004

Quote from Coins:

This subject has been plaguing me for awhile now.

We have seen how uncivilized and barbaric (I'd love to get an Iraqi chick in bed) Iraqis are since we so graciously removed their brutal tyrant Saddam off of them by the blood of our US soldiers.

What if... Saddam was simply a natural progression of leadership among the nation of Iraq?

What if... it took the likes of a brutal dictator with his primative means of torture and his army of "thugs" to keep these people subdued?

The key what if ... after Bush hands over Iraq to the local people in June, the inner core group of extremely violent Iraqis (who Saddam had subdued during his dictatorship) continue fighting and warring, faction against faction, causing so much civil unrest that the majority of Iraqis clearly see how much better off in comparison they were WITH Saddam in power that they beginning wanting Saddam and his group back in power in order to keep the violent Iraqis in line??

What if Saddam's brutal ways of torture were THE ONLY WAY to deal with and handle this base culture of primative and violent people?

What is going to happen to Bush's plan/campaign then?

Coins, this will never happen. There is no way in hell that the majority of Iraqis would ever want to be under the yoke of Saddam and his henchmen again. Why would they? A small number of Saddam loyalists, Shi'ite extremists, al Qaeda terrorists, and foreign fighters are fighting coalition troops in a few cities. This is not a nation-wide conflagaration.

Most Iraqis don't have to worry about being picked up without reason and then tortured and imprisoned or murdered like hundreds of thousands under Saddam. Women don't have to worry about a Ba'athist lusting after them and then kidnapping and raping them. No more shredders for enemies of the regime.

The Iraqis as a whole may not want us there for the long term, but why would they want to go back to the previous days of brutal dictatorship?

fofumfee · May 31, 2004

Here is the problem, is it really any of our business what the Iraqi people want as long as they don't constitute a direct threat to our way of life?

What if they did want to return to Saddam, elect him in a open democratic election, then what would we do?

We are pushing our ideology and our values onto these people, and it will not work in the long run in my opinion.

Uninvited intervention rarely works, unless the people are really wanting the goal on their own and have come to the realization that it is their blood, not ours that will need to be shed to keep the peace in a democracy. Democracy was an evolutionary process, not something freely given or forced upon people.

Not only that, but who do we think we are that we should tell others how they should live their lives, run their country, or treat their people?

Oh, and why is Castro still in power if we are about nothing but democracy and freedom for the oppressed?

Quote from hapaboy:

Coins, this will never happen. There is no way in hell that the majority of Iraqis would ever want to be under the yoke of Saddam and his henchmen again. Why would they? A small number of Saddam loyalists, Shi'ite extremists, al Qaeda terrorists, and foreign fighters are fighting coalition troops in a few cities. This is not a nation-wide conflagaration.

Most Iraqis don't have to worry about being picked up without reason and then tortured and imprisoned or murdered like hundreds of thousands under Saddam. Women don't have to worry about a Ba'athist lusting after them and then kidnapping and raping them. No more shredders for enemies of the regime.

The Iraqis as a whole may not want us there for the long term, but why would they want to go back to the previous days of brutal dictatorship?

Coins · May 31, 2004

Quote from maxpi:

The people aren't that bad at all. I know many here in Southern California, I joke about them from time to time but basically they are shaped by their krappy 10th century culture in Iraq of recent years, give them democracy, high speed internet and DirecTv and they will do fine. One of the guys I knew invented our cell phone system, another one made major contributions to the development of modern electronics, not lacking in intellect at all, they just need to get out from under the 10th century thinking of the jihad guys.

Nah, you're wrong, dude. The heart of this people can never be civilized. It is like a roaring lion.

They're worse than Africans.

Coins · May 31, 2004

Quote from hapaboy:

Coins, this will never happen. There is no way in hell that the majority of Iraqis would ever want to be under the yoke of Saddam and his henchmen again. Why would they? A small number of Saddam loyalists, Shi'ite extremists, al Qaeda terrorists, and foreign fighters are fighting coalition troops in a few cities. This is not a nation-wide conflagaration.

Most Iraqis don't have to worry about being picked up without reason and then tortured and imprisoned or murdered like hundreds of thousands under Saddam. Women don't have to worry about a Ba'athist lusting after them and then kidnapping and raping them. No more shredders for enemies of the regime.

The Iraqis as a whole may not want us there for the long term, but why would they want to go back to the previous days of brutal dictatorship?

"This is not a nation-wide conflagaration."

Yet.
___

"Most Iraqis don't have to worry about being picked up without reason and then tortured and imprisoned or murdered like hundreds of thousands under Saddam. Women don't have to worry about a Ba'athist lusting after them and then kidnapping and raping them. No more shredders for enemies of the regime."

Yeah, the US military sure showed them a different way of treating Iraqi captives. The pics and videos proved that.

Coins · May 31, 2004

Good points. VERY good points!

You know... you're not as dumb as they say.

Quote from fofumfee:

Here is the problem, is it really any of our business what the Iraqi people want as long as they don't constitute a direct threat to our way of life?

What if they did want to return to Saddam, elect him in a open democratic election, then what would we do?

We are pushing our ideology and our values onto these people, and it will not work in the long run in my opinion.

Uninvited intervention rarely works, unless the people are really wanting the goal on their own and have come to the realization that it is their blood, not ours that will need to be shed to keep the peace in a democracy. Democracy was an evolutionary process, not something freely given or forced upon people.

Not only that, but who do we think we are that we should tell others how they should live their lives, run their country, or treat their people?

Oh, and why is Castro still in power if we are about nothing but democracy and freedom for the oppressed?

Gringinho · May 31, 2004

Quote from Coins:

Nah, you're wrong, dude. The heart of this people can never be civilized. It is like a roaring lion.
They're worse than Africans.

You must be seriously deprived of history lessons or any kind of geography skills, or am I wrong ?

Did you know that Mesopotamia is known as the cradle of civilization and writing, that the Iraqis were/are the top readers in terms of newspapers - and that one of the most famous book markets in the world was in Baghdad - albeit they often had to sell their books to afford new ones ?

I mean - they have a longer and prouder history than your tapeworm.

It's you who're not civilized yet.

In africa, they're deprived of basic education - and lack the knowledge of how to best take care of their land. There are lot of reasons to why many nations are considered developing countries. You should get it through your mind that global social improvement and law-abiding markets enjoying free trade can empower consumers and accelerate trade and economic growth. Now, how to govern such utopia is best not let into the hands of one madman or nation alone.

It's not all Sid Meier doodling - but sure is a far stretch from where we're today.

hapaboy · Jun 1, 2004

Quote from Coins:

"This is not a nation-wide conflagaration."

Yet.
___

"Most Iraqis don't have to worry about being picked up without reason and then tortured and imprisoned or murdered like hundreds of thousands under Saddam. Women don't have to worry about a Ba'athist lusting after them and then kidnapping and raping them. No more shredders for enemies of the regime."

Yeah, the US military sure showed them a different way of treating Iraqi captives. The pics and videos proved that.

LOL! Thanks for admitting that this is not a nation-wide uprising we're facing.

And hey, once we start committing crimes the likes of Saddam, then you might have a point. Comparing the isolated abuses of a few reservists on captured enemy combatants (who, by the way, were trying to kill our soldiers) to the mass brutality of the previous regime is just plain ignorant. Getting piled into a pyramid and looking like a human condom is a lot better than the atrocities that used to be committed in those prison walls.