What formal education does one need?

[c.chugani]

Quote from rwk:

If trading were easy, everybody would be doing it.

Jobs as an institutional trader are extremely competitive, and the working conditions and culture of greed are deplorable. The only benefit is the potential to make a bundle of money and retire early. You can do that and still not know how to trade for yourself.

Trading for yourself has a lot of parallels with farming in the old days. It was a feast or famine existance, and you didn't have anybody to rely on, or answer to, but yourself. The outcome often depended on factors out of your control (i.e. the weather). This way of making a living has unfortunately fallen into disfavor.

very good analogy..

I hadnt quite thought about trading as the way u've just described it, but it makes lots of sense.

i guess the initiative, discipline and perseverance has to come from within. I guess most average joe kinda jobs nowdayws dont call for these kind of traits anymore.

 

[c.chugani]

Quote from Anekdoten:

Chugani,

Try paper swing trading futures, particularly ES (SP500)or NQ(Nasdaq).

More info at CME.com

Buy the swing trading book by Farley

Buy the chartong book by Duddella

Buy Trading in the Zone by Douglas

...and the screen time I spoke of.

Anek

This sounds more like the concrete advice I was looking for. Thanx for the details. I shall look into what u have mentioned and get back to u.

 

[Cutten]

Quote from c.chugani:

could you care to elaborate?

I'm really lost on whether I should finish my last year in Marketing and take up another degree in Economics or something..

Where/how can I learn how to trade for and by myself?

Finish your degree. An economics degree makes no difference whatsoever to your trading profitability.

You can learn to trade by doing it for several years - either by yourself (if you have other means of support, or a full-time job) or at a firm which lets you trade. After that period of time you should pick up the necessary skills if you are smart and hard-working enough. Doing it at a firm is generally easier.

 

[c.chugani]

Quote from Cutten:

Trading success (pure directional trading) has almost nothing to do with normal measures of educational achievement. It's more about a certain mentality and personality, along with high intelligence - those things can't easily be learned or taught.

How does one know whether he/she fits the bill?

You still need to give yourself a fair chance [and time] in the markets to find out if you have what it takes.

Its not like i've blown up huge accounts or anything.. im just starting to probe this world [just 1 year of market study] and would like to take it one step further towards making it a [possible] profession.

Its more like I am lost while searching for the appropriate tools [books, trading instruments, software, PC setup, ..] when it comes to trading effectively.

Forget the actual strategy for a moment - how am I supposed to make this into my full-time job if I dont even know what kind of computer configuration, trading platform nor charting software I should be using?

There's just so many choices, alternatives and info out there, its tough to seperate what's necessary and what isn't.

 

[c.chugani]

Quote from Cutten:

Finish your degree. An economics degree makes no difference whatsoever to your trading profitability.

You can learn to trade by doing it for several years - either by yourself (if you have other means of support, or a full-time job) or at a firm which lets you trade. After that period of time you should pick up the necessary skills if you are smart and hard-working enough. Doing it at a firm is generally easier.

By firm I suppose you mean going the prop route? As far as I know, do such kind of firms exist in Europe?

 

[illinimatt81]

Quote from rwk:

If trading were easy, everybody would be doing it.

Maybe or maybe not. Not everyone has an interest in even learning regardless of how easy or hard it may be. Many may write it off as a scam or not for them for whatever reason. Some people get off on working for Corporate America!

In Mark Douglas' Trading in The Zone he talks about how he couldn't even give money away on the corner! People always think there is some catch, trading included. Not to say trading is easy as it certainly is not.

 

[thetrendfollowe]

Well its taken me almost 2 years and several thousands in losses and several thousands in software and books.

Dont let the cost of education get to you.
Ignorance can be much more expensive.

With trading, im not sure about formal education

Ok, Im going to assume you come from the grass-roots level

Firstly you have to grasp a sound understand the following:

*Risk management.
-Stop losses
-When to exit losing trades

*Money management.
-How much money to allocate to each trade
-Ideally you need an algorithm which allows you to bet more as your capital increases and bet less when your capital decreases. You are not going to get rich overnight but you will decrease the risk of ruin when losing and compound your account quicker over time.

*Expectancy.
-How much can you expect to make per trade

For the above 2 topics, a good book to read would be:

Van Tharp - Trade your way to financial freedom

and/or

Alexander Elder - Trading for a living

(in my opinion the former was better, but perhaps thats only because I read

*Discipline and Psychology.
-You need to have a plan/methodology that you are going to stick to religiously. Why?
Firstly, So you have a clue if the system even works and secondly, so your decisions are not made based on fear, greed, panic and emotion.

BUT the question I asked myself is what is the point of sticking to a plan if you don't even know if the plan is profitable and when to expect profits and what string of losses to expect and what maxDD is likely to be experienced.

And thats why I got into the whole backtesting thing and took a quantitative approach.

SO i can have comfort in knowing my approach will be profitable and the system basic characteristics BEFORE risking any money.

Mark Douglas I heard is good for psychology.
Ari Kiev as well.

(Iv read neither).

Note that I havent even covered entries and exits here.
When my freinds tell me they want to learn how to trade I always recommend the above topics first.

And lastly, I would recommend (Im sure others disagree) NOT to attempt to trade short term. Longer term trend following methods are easier to design and to follow (less transaction costs, less stress, less time required, some dividends) as I have found.

My system is weekly. I could not find an EOD system worth trading to be honest.

And dont be in a hurry to get started.
The markets will always be there. The opportunity will always be there.

Any questions feel free to PM me.
And there is alot of information on my blog.

thetrendfollower.blogspot.com

Nizar.

 

[NYOBScalper]

Only trading will teach you how to trade. No outside education, except perhaps training with some zen-buddhists or becoming proficient in martial arts, will hep your trading.

 

[gnome]

Quote from c.chugani:

"... Its an incredible paradox - how easy it seems and yet how difficult it really is to trade [profitably].

Trading has a Zen-like quality... "The difficulty lies in the simplicity".

 

[gnome]

Quote from illinimatt81:

I highly second that. One of the most valuable books I have read. I have read it several times and get something new from it each time.

Douglas has another book (and I'm told there is overlap with "Zone")... it's called, "The Disciplined Trader".

It's unlikely anyone will succeed at trading without discipline.