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What formal education does one need?
- Thread starter c.chugani
- Start date
Quote from QuantPlus:
Wrong.
For those who have graduated from university in a hardcore program...
(Not some country club diploma mill)...
You understand that the ENTIRE point of an advanced education is...
TO CHANGE THE WAY YOU THINK.
University is not about memorizing facts like high school...
It's entirely about CHALLENGING you intellectually...
So you end up thinking at a higher level..
And then you reason at an advanced level for the ** rest of your life **.
The 2 prerequisites for a trader are math and logic.
It doesn't really matter how you master these 2 disciplines...
But you can only do it through an intensive university program.
You cannot do it alone...
Because ONLY a tough university program will PUSH you that far.
Business and finance programs do almost NOTHING...
To take your math and logic reasoning to a higher level.
You don't even really need the math. However, you do need to be observant, diligent, analytical, logical, courageous and disciplined. Just about any pursuit of hard science at university will help develop the necessary skill set for trading.
Quote from QuantPlus:
Wrong.
For those who have graduated from university in a hardcore program...
(Not some country club diploma mill)...
You understand that the ENTIRE point of an advanced education is...
TO CHANGE THE WAY YOU THINK.
University is not about memorizing facts like high school...
It's entirely about CHALLENGING you intellectually...
So you end up thinking at a higher level..
And then you reason at an advanced level for the ** rest of your life **.
The 2 prerequisites for a trader are math and logic.
It doesn't really matter how you master these 2 disciplines...
But you can only do it through an intensive university program.
You cannot do it alone...
Because ONLY a tough university program will PUSH you that far.
Business and finance programs do almost NOTHING...
To take your math and logic reasoning to a higher level.
No doubt it is beneficial to have solid understanding of math but the best trader I know majored in Marketing, worked in the hospitality industry for a few years out of college before trading to supplement his income. To be fair, he is just sort of good at it based on his highly disciplined nature as a person.
Long story short psychological factors are your biggest enemy, having a deep understanding of the quantitative stuff may or may not be important to your strategy/edge. I wouldnât go load up on Calc or intense math courses your last year of college because if you donât have the foundation for them you wonât be successful nor get much out of it besides frustration. Econ is interesting stuff but itâs real world application is much different than the âperfect worldâ in which it is taught in college.
Read many books, learn to find nuggets of wisdom on this board, ignore the blatant nay sayers and look for re-occurring âthemesâ in what you read and pursue those topics further (Psychology, Capital Management, etc) I have found this useful in my study.
Quote from illinimatt81:
No doubt it is beneficial to have solid understanding of math but the best trader I know majored in Marketing, worked in the hospitality industry for a few years out of college before trading to supplement his income. To be fair, he is just sort of good at it based on his highly disciplined nature as a person.
Long story short psychological factors are your biggest enemy, having a deep understanding of the quantitative stuff may or may not be important to your strategy/edge. I wouldnât go load up on Calc or intense math courses your last year of college because if you donât have the foundation for them you wonât be successful nor get much out of it besides frustration. Econ is interesting stuff but itâs real world application is much different than the âperfect worldâ in which it is taught in college.
Read many books, learn to find nuggets of wisdom on this board, ignore the blatant nay sayers and look for re-occurring âthemesâ in what you read and pursue those topics further (Psychology, Capital Management, etc) I have found this useful in my study.
ET has more people that are completely fooled about the markets...
Than any other place on earth.
People may think I'm an asshole...
But I really, really feel bad...
About the way people are EXPLOITED by the Securities Industry.
That's primarily what drives my posting.
But it's completely hopeless to explain...
To uneducated or semi-educated people...
That the simple, off-the-shelf "strategy"...
They are running thru a retail broker using market orders...
Is only making their brokers... and 5% of the traders rich.
It's hopeless...
I've been meeting, interviewing, talking to clueless "traders" for 15 years.
Quote from c.chugani:
could you care to elaborate?
I'm really lost on whether I should finish my last year in Marketing and take up another degree in Economics or something..
Where/how can I learn how to trade for and by myself?
Unless you have huge savings or a trust fund or something, I would finish the degree, get a job, and work a few years while learning to trade. In other words, save some money first - you're going to need all you can muster to get started.
Bottom line - the formal degree will not improve your chances as a trader, but having more capital will.
Best of luck.
Quote from QuantPlus:
ET has more people that are completely fooled about the markets...
Than any other place on earth.
People may think I'm an asshole...
But I really, really feel bad...
About the way people are EXPLOITED by the Securities Industry.
That's primarily what drives my posting.
But it's completely hopeless to explain...
To uneducated or semi-educated people...
That the simple, off-the-shelf "strategy"...
They are running thru a retail broker using market orders...
Is only making their brokers... and 5% of the traders rich.
It's hopeless...
I've been meeting, interviewing, talking to clueless "traders" for 15 years.
I agree a lot of people are exploited by their brokers and certainly you are only making them rich using market orders. But to say retail traders can't be successful isn't entirely true. If it wasn't working out for me I would have given up long ago. Are there traps at every corner - yes! You have to develop an eye for them and get the best tools in your arsenal.
OK I am glad that some our saying not to ditch my 5 year Marketing degree in pursuit of Economics or Finance for another 4-5 years of study.
From what I get, it isnt really required to be recruited at a top firm then? What is it one can learn when you get a job at an investment bank - say as a 'market analyst' or something of that sort? Are those jobs overrated when it comes to trading?
I love reading books on trading and finance. I may not have the formal educational foundation - but I try to push myself to read and understand concepts which are deeply related to economics, statistics and probability. I do find it tough though..
Anyways, I live in the EU and would like to know where I could start looking for more info - regarding brokers that offer good comms and fast execution, trading software to develop a strategy, etc. etc. I have realised that all of this stuff will not be taught to me in any university anyways..
Perhaps the most tough part [apart from the mental aspect] of trading is the vast amount of possibilites to trade - and the fact that we have to rely on ourselves to find educational resources, understand them, test them, apply them and finally find something that works for each of us [and our personality]?
Its an incredible paradox - how easy it seems and yet how difficult it really is to trade [profitably].
From what I get, it isnt really required to be recruited at a top firm then? What is it one can learn when you get a job at an investment bank - say as a 'market analyst' or something of that sort? Are those jobs overrated when it comes to trading?
I love reading books on trading and finance. I may not have the formal educational foundation - but I try to push myself to read and understand concepts which are deeply related to economics, statistics and probability. I do find it tough though..
Anyways, I live in the EU and would like to know where I could start looking for more info - regarding brokers that offer good comms and fast execution, trading software to develop a strategy, etc. etc. I have realised that all of this stuff will not be taught to me in any university anyways..
Perhaps the most tough part [apart from the mental aspect] of trading is the vast amount of possibilites to trade - and the fact that we have to rely on ourselves to find educational resources, understand them, test them, apply them and finally find something that works for each of us [and our personality]?
Its an incredible paradox - how easy it seems and yet how difficult it really is to trade [profitably].
Quote from illinimatt81:
You have to develop an eye for them and get the best tools in your arsenal.
Exactly. I would like to know what are these tools - in terms of professional software and brokerage services - traders can rely on to make their lives a little bit easier in the markets.
I currently am studying the markets and trading blindly. I do not have the experience, nor the mediums, nor the strategy to get into the market and slowly start becoming profitable.
That is basically my current dilemma. And the fact that I dont know where to turn in order to solve the issue. Job? Another degree? Mentorship? Books? Seminars?
I really need some sorting out regarding the direction I have to take [regardless of how tough it may be] to get started in this career.