I don't even know what counter party is.
Warning to all CME traders!!!!!
- Thread starter scalper21
- Start date
I think a big reason why GHCO dosen't want anyone to see counterparties is that in my experience, THEY are the ones who get picked off and victimized. I sure as hell made a lot of money off of their desks. Have you heard any other firms bitching????
Rather than rag on people who utilize the counterparty info, they should've used it to their advantage. Just one less excuse for them to use I guess when it comes to explaining performance.....
I also prefered to see counterparties so I would know which trader was disrupting the market and could report them to the exchange. Whenever that happened, a phone call was made to the exchange, the trader ID was reported and the disruption ceased soon thereafter.
Guess we'll have to sit pretty on the profits already scalped out of GHCO's hide and move on. Just one of many edges gone away...
Rather than rag on people who utilize the counterparty info, they should've used it to their advantage. Just one less excuse for them to use I guess when it comes to explaining performance.....
I also prefered to see counterparties so I would know which trader was disrupting the market and could report them to the exchange. Whenever that happened, a phone call was made to the exchange, the trader ID was reported and the disruption ceased soon thereafter.
Guess we'll have to sit pretty on the profits already scalped out of GHCO's hide and move on. Just one of many edges gone away...
No boring, at all!
[..]
Chris Hehmeyer wrote a letter about the issue that was published in lothian's newsletter:
here it is:
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CBOT pulls back 100% anonymity at last second
[/QUOTE]
Here is the previous letter always published in lothian's newsletter but last May 10:
The CME/CBOT's lack of anonymity is an issue
The CME/CBOT's lack of anonymity is an issue. In various ways, counterparty data (both clearing firm and individual trader identification) is electronically sent in real time to market participants. Certain data is only received by clearing firms.
From a shareholder point of view, in the electronic world, nothing but 100% anonymity (including no nightly batching) makes any sense. Anonymity speaks to integrity, fairness, and creates more volume and liquidity. Also, there is no legitimate purpose to ever sending out any counterparty data in the electronic world. If the clearing corporation confirms that a trade has matched between two parties, the trade is good and no other data is needed. Do we remember the "clearing corporation is the seller to every buyer and buyer to every seller"? This is Futures 101. In fact, 100% anonymity is the case at Eurex, Liffe, and ICE.
Interestingly, over the past several months, I've run across analyst reports where analysts have trumpeted the CME being anonymous. Also, in general, I believe that the market believes the same to be true for the CBOT. As this lack of anonymity has started to leak recently, I spoke with a few CME/CBOT executives and they all seemed to prefer anonymity. CME has even hinted at moving towards anonymity. And four weeks ago, in a related Wall Street Journal article, CBOT Chairman Charlie Carey said, "Anonymity has to win out on this." Yet, all of this and nothing has happened.
So, why in the world is this not happening, as technically it is very easy to quickly stop pouring out this sensitive counterparty data? I'm not sure, but I do know that a couple of large institutions spent $10's of millions building a database that sniffs out market patterns. These databases constantly ping (with one lots) the various futures' participants and from the counterparty data figure out who is doing what. These institutions, depending on the counterparty data, then either race the counterparty or try and push the market the opposite way. This is bad for CME/CBOT and, for that matter, the futures industry.
If the CME/CBOT end up agreeing that this is bad, the result should be 100% anonymity, as anything less is "kinda pregnant". In fact, if they don't go 100% anonymous and there is a stiff challenge, like ICE vs. CME (NYMEX), I believe that ICE and their anonymous market will win hands down. After all, integrity and fairness are the foundations upon which the Chicago exchanges sit...volume and liquidity are the result. The foundations need to be solid.
Respectfully,
Chris Hehmeyer
Co-Chairman
Goldenberg Hehmeyer
>>These databases constantly ping (with one lots) the various futures' participants and from the counterparty data figure out who is doing what. These institutions, depending on the counterparty data, then either race the counterparty or try and push the market the opposite way. >>
...this happens constantly on debt contracts....
What good is that? You are betting against a computer, the computer shuffles constantly and gives you any card they want. I never played online poker, so I probably am wrong. How many decks they use?
832b,
interesting info, thx. can you give an example of the type of disruption
interesting info, thx. can you give an example of the type of disruption
So counterparty is similar to nasdaq level 2 and New York open books? Except it is for CME and futures? If that is what it is, then yes, that was very important information to know. But I don't see it in strategy runner.
I am new to trading ES emini S&P 500. I never noticed a counterparty ID on strategy runner platform.
Most of the disruption was flickering quotes which would eat up bandwith with orders that wouldn't get executed and if so, only for a one lot.
My problem with that is I'm paying for the bandwith to execute trades and these dirtbags just try to disrupt the mkt w/out adding anything to the pile. As Snoop said, "everybodys got their cup but they ain't chipped in."
And yes, disrupting trading is an offense on the exchange.
One technique that sorta went away is traders loading the order book on a contract that was executed pro rata. I'd bitch to the clearing firms about why should a guy w/50k in his account have enormous orders in the book that he couldn't come close to margining. They're too big of hookers to listen to me about that though.
Right next to my computer is a listing of firm numbers and after TATOOING a counterparty, I'd love to yell "House ###, SUCK ITTTTTTTTTTTTT!" Let's just say some firms got tatooed more than others.
All no more but it was fun while it lasted....