Warning to all CME traders!!!!!

Quote from Pabst:

I certainly hope that Chicago futures exchanges have enjoyed in their 150 years of existence, an adherence to higher moral and ethical standards than freakin' Nasdaq market-makers! As recently as ..well.. TODAY, crude, gold, cattle, soybeans etal are trading in the most transparent possible marketplace, open outcry. Brokers who are filling paper in those pits for commercial accounts will freely tell counter parties "who they were." What makes you think that just because we're now on the screen, with the benefit of FIFO, that anonymity is favorable?

You speak of "no reason to know". I'm not asking for the account on the trade, I'm asking which clearing exchange member traded with another exchange member. In a world that allows home sale records, data that includes individual's names, addresses and financial records to be transmitted publicly on-line or in a daily newspapers RE section, the CME and CBOT should feel that a completed trade is in the limited public domain. In the most liquid markets in the world, no participant has a right to know if a firm is cornering a market? In gold they can know. In crude they can know. But Treasuries and indices by virtue of the screen should be exempt from that scrutiny? I think not. Does a shareholder have a right to know "privileged" information? I say in most cases, yes. So yea let me and everyone who cares know if it's Gelber or Goldman on the otherside.

Someday, a rogue event is going to occur. Either a series a few hundred 1000 lot market orders or a credit failure, what have you. Not to mention mega-theft. When that happens you'll tell me that transparency is openness not secrecy.
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Many good points. However, everyone should have seen this coming. The institutions are now immune from turning over SOME data as deemed necessary by the US Govt for National Security reasons.

In short, the PPT does not want anyone to know that the 00 accounts are buying for the PPT through Goldman or anyone else. They are rigging these markets more and more so when 'extremes' happen they can intervene without anyone knowing. You have had TONS of info hitting the wires on the PPT. George Stephanopolous let the cat out of bag right on national tv after September 11.

The US Stock Market is considered a National Security Issue and there are many directives that state just that. If it were to REALLY go ---the Political Class of the US would be really screwed.

It is not a conspiracy, Peas in a Pod do NOT have to conspire. It is simply a matter of National Security (at least for those in charge who would hang).
 
Quote from polee2000:

i think it helps to clear big lots in short period of time.
like 3000 lots of ER2 in 5 minutes. i dont think i would like the other end to know.
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I assume you are joking.

However, your point is a good one. I trade ER2 and it is very useful to know who is running the market. In my opinion, not having the counterparty information will be a disadvantage.
 
Pabst-

couldnt agree with you more . . . thanks for your posts, one of the (only) reasons I come back to ET




"Someday, a rogue event is going to occur. Either a series a few hundred 1000 lot market orders or a credit failure, what have you. Not to mention mega-theft. When that happens you'll tell me that transparency is openness not secrecy."
 
Quote from 40Deuce:

Pabst-

couldnt agree with you more . . . thanks for your posts, one of the (only) reasons I come back to ET




"Someday, a rogue event is going to occur. Either a series a few hundred 1000 lot market orders or a credit failure, what have you. Not to mention mega-theft. When that happens you'll tell me that transparency is openness not secrecy."
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This event has happened before and it just went back on the clearing house. I know an instance were it happened and to this day no one knows who made it whole. The way it is structured ---averything falls back to the lender of last resort.......and there is more than one.
 
I think a better approach might be to consider your alternatives as:

1) Anonymity which encourages large order flow to come to a central liquidity pool which is a *relatively* level and fair playing field in which we can all participate.

2) Everything becomes internalized and only big banks trade against funds, pensions, etc. and little traders are left out in the cold.

Because that is a more realistic portrayal of where we are today. the tiered clearing system addresses the issue of counterparty risk, that's its whole purpose and refco demonstrated that it works pretty well.

nobody owes you a living front running their order flow.

If i had a lot of size to move I know i wouldn't feel particularly obligated to share my counterparty information with you so that you could front run the hell out of me and frankly that's the only reason you want the counterparty information.

Firms that want to be anonymous could still accomplish the same thing by executing through multiple clearing firms and accounts simultaneously.

But all that does is encourage a complicated, fragmented order flow and a painful, expensive to maintain IT infrastructure.

We should be doing whatever it takes to maintain centralized liquidity pools in futures instead of having crappy, illiquid, fragmented distributed and untradable markets like we see in cash currency.

just my 2 cents
 
Quote from market_hacker:..
If I had a lot of size to move I know I wouldn't feel particularly obligated to share my counterparty information with you so that you could front run the hell out of me and frankly that's the only reason you want the counterparty information. ..
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You got it. Spot on.
:)
 
Quote from rufus_4000:

I have no idea who you talked to at CME. But opposite firm number is a part of the trade register file (and TREX messages), I am looking at intraday drops now. You are not a clearing member and does not receive the Trade Register drops. This is all I am going to say about this matter.

http://www.cme.com/files/CCL-TradeReg.pdf
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This is going away
http://www.cme.com/trading/get/adv/18848.html

Reminder: CME Clearing and CME Globex Contra-party Information Changes
To improve the anonymity of the CME electronic marketplace, the following changes will be made to the CME Clearing (TREX) messages, the back-office Front-End Clearing (FEC) application, the official trade register report and the FIXML data file; and the CME Globex execution messages.
• Effective Sunday, June 11
o CME Globex execution messages for NYMEX products only, traded on the CME Globex platform, will be populated with the generic value "CME000A" in FIX tag 375, the contra-party Subscriber ID.
• Effective Sunday, July 2
o CME Globex execution messages for all products traded on the CME Globex platform will be populated with the generic value "CME000A" in tag 375.
o Opposite broker and firm information will be removed from FEC.
o Opposite broker and firm information will be removed from the official trade register report and FIXML data file.
o TREX confirmation messages will be populated with the generic value "000" in the Opposite Firm field, position 76-80 of the main block.
o These changes to the CME Globex execution messages for all products are currently available for testing in the CME certification environment.
 
Quote from market_hacker:

I think a better approach might be to consider your alternatives as:

1) Anonymity which encourages large order flow to come to a central liquidity pool which is a *relatively* level and fair playing field in which we can all participate.

2) Everything becomes internalized and only big banks trade against funds, pensions, etc. and little traders are left out in the cold.

Because that is a more realistic portrayal of where we are today. the tiered clearing system addresses the issue of counterparty risk, that's its whole purpose and refco demonstrated that it works pretty well.

nobody owes you a living front running their order flow.

If i had a lot of size to move I know i wouldn't feel particularly obligated to share my counterparty information with you so that you could front run the hell out of me and frankly that's the only reason you want the counterparty information.

Firms that want to be anonymous could still accomplish the same thing by executing through multiple clearing firms and accounts simultaneously.

But all that does is encourage a complicated, fragmented order flow and a painful, expensive to maintain IT infrastructure.

We should be doing whatever it takes to maintain centralized liquidity pools in futures instead of having crappy, illiquid, fragmented distributed and untradable markets like we see in cash currency.

just my 2 cents
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Until a month ago, for almost two centuries, counter-party information was available. It certainly didn't hurt volume. A marketplace, by it's very nature must be open and transparent. You make an unintentional irony filled point. You speak of eliminating the public from this increasingly all institutional marketplace, lest transparency cause futures to resemble the inter-bank FX market. The CME listed currencies as the antithesis of bank traded FX. Read Leo Melamed's (who I clerked for) story about Milton Friedman calling him and complaining that no bank would allow him to trade cable.

You speak of "front running" as if it's anachronistic to "trading". Trading IS frontrunning. When you execute a buy, no matter your timeframe, you do so with the hope/expectation that those who follow will bid up the item you purchased earlier. If you trade big enough you "lock out" those who are bidding lower. That's the game. It's a two sided auction.

When I was a local in the Bonds a single individual (Rich Dennis) cleared himself (C&D) and used a single floor broker to execute his trades. He bullied the market and in 1984-1985 made $50,000,000 being long. Everyone saw the trades executed and everyone in Chicago knew his position. Same with Gary Bielfeldt. It didn't matter to them! Who does it matter to?

1. Bots with auto-spreaders are exploiting the size algorithm in pro rata contracts. These players of course prefer anonymity.

2. As do spoofer's.

3.So do the brokers who are frontrunning on the screen. Are you so naive to think that firms don't frontrun customers on Globex? Try proving it though. Same way if there's suspicious activity in front of economic data. Much easier to do with anonymity.

People who are trading honestly, speculating with purity, could give a flying fuck if their position is known. It's only the thief who prefers the dead of night........
 
That's very kind of you. I'm quite appreciative.......
Quote from 40Deuce:

Pabst-

couldnt agree with you more . . . thanks for your posts, one of the (only) reasons I come back to ET




"Someday, a rogue event is going to occur. Either a series a few hundred 1000 lot market orders or a credit failure, what have you. Not to mention mega-theft. When that happens you'll tell me that transparency is openness not secrecy."
More...
 
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