Universe - Life - Purpose - Existence?

Bogus religious sects and their conclusions 2000+, that is all?

Atheist's Gods(senses) and their justifications for being "absolute", billions!
 
Stu, I missed this one before.

“There need be no higher plane other than that which a limited human condition may seek because of incomplete knowledge.”

So, now purpose and scientific study should be limited to a level of someone’s inquisitiveness. Who’s level of inquisitiveness? Well, being that your level of inquisitiveness does not stretch beyond, your relative absolute, of “how to gratify your and your family’s senses I am sure glad you are not the head of any research organization.

As for your weak stomach when it comes to the topic of co-union of the efficient and material causes, I don’t understand why someone who believes that everything can be OBJECTIVELY broken down to a mixing of chemicals would have such an issue with it. Perhaps you have SUBJECTIVELY experienced some bad taste with that specific previously mentioned efficient?

Ok, OK, I am a child.
:D
 
Daniel, was this the post that I ignored?

aphie, it doesn't make sense to talk about the Universe as being 'created' or 'caused'.

here's why:

all our experiences with creation and causation require there to have been some kind of material existence prior to the creation/causation.

'before' the universe, there was nothing -- absolutely nothing. to then say that something created or caused the universe doesn't make any sense.

if you wanted to posit a god, you'd have to say that god "brought the universe into existence", which is not the same as 'created' or 'caused'.

so, it should be obvious that "everything that exists was caused" is not true. rather than "from nothing you get nothing", it has to be "from nothing, you get something".

and, logically, we'd be forced to accept that some things that exist weren't caused. a theist would say that uncaused thing is 'god', an atheist would say it was the universe.

now, you could take the path of William Craig, and say that

1 whatever began to exist had a cause
2 the universe began to exist
3 the universe was caused
4 God is eternal
5 God created the universe.

i would simply attack his first premise and question how he could possibly know that 1 is true.

i'd also attack 4, and question how he knows that god is eternal.
and attack 5, why is it necessarily true that god, eternal though he may be, created the universe?”

If so, I ignored it because I did not see it. Thanks for pointing it out. After reading through it I now choose to ignore it based on the fact that the very first sentence, of which all your other points are based on, is a gross misunderstanding of the facts.

“all our experiences with creation and causation require there to have been some kind of material existence prior to the creation/causation.”

This sentence and its subsequent conclusions are considered a fallacy in classical philosophy: argumentum ad ignorantium, the fallacy of argument from ignorance.

Try… all our experiences with mundane creation and causation require there to have been some kind of co-union of an efficient/life/energetic with matter. (Gross causal element)

If one cannot even discern the sentient from the non-sentient, well, then I guess for that individual there would be no need for a cause of anything as long as their senses were being gratified. Two legged animals! Human reasoning faculties misused to such a degree that animalistic conclusions are drawn. Very sad indeed.

Well, ET’s atheist intelligencia has concluded that there is no more need for scientific research or human reasoning, for the conclusion that everything comes from, and is thus, nothing has been officially accepted as a post-theorem fact. From now on let all science work towards finding newer and newer ways for us to enjoy our senses(Gods) and stop wasting its time on trying to study the difference between the sentient and the non-sentient and there two different respective natures. (haha)

Here is some wisdom of the ancients for you;

"Those who are seers of the truth have concluded that of the nonexistent there is no endurance and of the existent there is no cessation. This they have concluded by studying the nature of both."

Before you go blasting the ancient Eastern literatures as “crap” you might want to either read some for yourself or find out why some of the greatest minds in science have read and continue to read them in ever increasing numbers, thousands of years after they were written.

Just to let you know, “feeling good” is an emotion (mental-sensory based), which is material, and thus rejected in the study of the sentient.(Sorry Descarte devotees) (I guess this is where Gordon gets hung up with his brain function theory. He identifies himself as being his emotions.) I guess the misunderstanding that “feeling good” is what true religion is about has lead you to rejecting any serious inquiry in to it. If that is your limited understanding of the purpose of true religious knowledge, it would be natural for you to reject it. I acknowledge that you have already created your own feel good mechanism in you quasi-nihilistic Buddhist understanding of the universe. If you are happy being a two-legged animal I have no problem with that. However, if you are not and your intelligence urges you beyond the realm of emotional and sense gratification, beyond the level of a child’s or Stu's inquisitiveness then go find some literature that will help you discern what is matter and what is sentient. When you begin to realize what is sentient, then begin to study its nature.

Again, if all this philosophy is too much for you, “feeling good” is now being accepted as the absolute relative (Purpose of life) of human reasoning by some of ET’s atheists so you might want to jump on board of that dogma for some warm fuzzys.

Keep up the good work.
 
Quote from aphexcoil:
Does everything have a purpose or is it all just random bullshit?
More...
Perhaps the answer to your question can never be found in the realm of thought and reason which is where most people try to find an answer. Those who truly understand the meaning of life realize this. The knowledge which knows the answer to this question isn't rational knowledge but knowledge of a higher order - a type of direct transcendent experience. Nietzsche talks about butting our heads against "the prison-house of language" and withdrawing our heads bleeding. And Spinoza talks about the different types of knowledge, the highest being intuition. I wrote a paper once on these distinctions about the famous 20th century philosopher Ludwig Wittgenstein and Zen Buddhism pointing out, among other things, that this distinction was something Wittgenstein himself came to realize through a type of mystical experience he had. And this is what Zen koans are about, to help you break through "the prison-house of language" and reason and enable you to know/experience life directly.
"He who knows does not talk. He who talks does not know."
 
Quote from BCE:

Perhaps the answer to your question can never be found in the realm of thought and reason which is where most people try to find an answer. Those who truly understand the meaning of life realize this. The knowledge which knows the answer to this question isn't rational knowledge but knowledge of a higher order - a type of direct transcendent experience. Nietzsche talks about butting our heads against "the prison-house of language" and withdrawing our heads bleeding. And Spinoza talks about the different types of knowledge, the highest being intuition. I wrote a paper once on these distinctions about the famous 20th century philosopher Ludwig Wittgenstein and Zen Buddhism pointing out, among other things, that this distinction was something Wittgenstein himself came to realize through a type of mystical experience he had. And this is what Zen koans are about, to help you break through "the prison-house of language" and reason and enable you to know/experience life directly.
"He who knows does not talk. He who talks does not know."
More...

great post ! wittgenstein called it the "unspeakable".

best,

surfer:) :)
 
Quote from BCE:

Perhaps the answer to your question can never be found in the realm of thought and reason which is where most people try to find an answer. Those who truly understand the meaning of life realize this. The knowledge which knows the answer to this question isn't rational knowledge but knowledge of a higher order - a type of direct transcendent experience. Nietzsche talks about butting our heads against "the prison-house of language" and withdrawing our heads bleeding. And Spinoza talks about the different types of knowledge, the highest being intuition. I wrote a paper once on these distinctions about the famous 20th century philosopher Ludwig Wittgenstein and Zen Buddhism pointing out, among other things, that this distinction was something Wittgenstein himself came to realize through a type of mystical experience he had. And this is what Zen koans are about, to help you break through "the prison-house of language" and reason and enable you to know/experience life directly.
"He who knows does not talk. He who talks does not know."
More...


HAR DEE HARR HARR :D WHAT A FREAKING JOKE POST! A SEMANTIC NIGHT MARE! HEE HAW!

WHAT TYPE OF "KNOW LEDGE" ARE WE SPEAKING OF BCE THAT IS "HIGHER" THAN RATIONAL KNOWLEDGE.. FEEL GOOD KNOWLEDGE??

HAHAHAHA

YOU FREAKERS ARE A RIOT YOU REALLY ARE. :D

SURF, YOU'RE AN IDIOT OF THE HIGHEST CALIBER. CONGRATS. YOU MADE IT MAN. YOU'RE AN OFFICIAL MORON. NO WONDER YOU BELIEVE IN THAT "GANN" NONSENSE. :D GANN (GONE :D) TRADING IS A SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCE AINT IT... FEELS GOOOD TO BE COMPLETELY IN HAR MOAN EE WITH THE U KNEE VERSE DONT IT?? HEH HEH HEE HEE


ALL DA BEST,


THE ANTI-GANN
 
Quote from GeeTO69:

HAR DEE HARR HARR :D WHAT A FREAKING JOKE POST! A SEMANTIC NIGHT MARE! HEH HEH
WHAT TYPE OF "KNOW LEDGE" ARE WE SPEAKING OF BCE THAT IS "HIGHER" THAN RATIONAL KNOWLEDGE.. FEEL GOOD KNOWLEDGE??

HAHAHAHA

YOU FREAKERS ARE A RIOT YOU REALLY ARE. :D

SURF, YOU'RE AN IDIOT OF THE HIGHEST CALIBER. CONGRATS. YOU MADE IT MAN. YOU'RE AN OFFICIAL MORON. NO WONDER YOU BELIEVE IN THAT "GANN" NONSENSE. :D GANN (GONE :D) TRADING IS A SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCE AINT IT... FEELS GOOOD TO BE COMPLETELY IN HAR MOAN EE WITH THE U KNEE VERSE DONT IT?? HEH HEH HEE HEE


ALL DA BEST,


THE ANTI-GANN
More...
GeeTO69
Peace Brother :) We won't take it personally. :) HeHe
This will get you, :) - The answer to your question, "WHAT TYPE OF "KNOW LEDGE" ARE WE SPEAKING OF BCE THAT IS "HIGHER" THAN RATIONAL KNOWLEDGE.. FEEL GOOD KNOWLEDGE??" is something you already know. It's inside of you. You may not be tuned into it and may be attached to some belief system about how things are or some belief in the "sanctity" of discriminating thoughts and reason. But the Truth cannot be discerned with thoughts of "this or that". These are the discriminations and arguments of science for instance and exist in the realm of duality. Just as it is said, "He who talks does not know. He who knows does not talk." it could perhaps in an even more descriptive way be said, "He who argues does not know. He who knows does not argue." Truth can only be understood and known in the realm of direct experience. Never in the realm of discrimination, "this or that" considerations, and duality. And the thought that any type of knowledge other than rational knowledge is just "feel good knowledge" perhaps reflects nothing more than an attachment to your own belief system. Hope you're enjoying your weekend.
:)
PS If the poll here continues the way it now stands perhaps all the lamas, shamans, and holy men and women will say, "We were wrong. It appears from the poll that "nothing really matters -- Life is just a fluke." :D LOL
PPS Suzuki Roshi, a famous Soto Zen Master who founded the San Francisco Zen Center and wrote the classic book Zen Mind Beginners Mind, once said, "After a while of doing Zen practice you may take the attitude and say, "It doesn't matter. Nothing matters." But don't say, "It doesn't matter." If you really knew it didn't matter you wouldn't have to say it."
This seems like a paradox. On the one hand perhaps nothing matters. But the true "nothing matters" can also mean "everything matters totally".
 
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