United 93

[FanOfFridays]

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:


If the very thought doesn't move a person....

So the very thought of the attacks are enough to move you?

Ah, I see.. in that case, Z, would you care to comment about your suggestion that a good joke would be to suggest to another ET member that his kid's might be subject to pedophilic attack? I am having a bit of trouble reconciling these two statements. Would not the very thought of such an attack be enough to move you not to make such a joke?

Thanks as always.

If a person needs to see this movie to get in touch with reality, they are very much out of touch....

 

[whitster]

he's a troll, tradernik

his posts must be for "effect"

they certainly aren't made for content

 

[balda]

I heard that relatives of the victims were treated like Hollywood celebrities during opening ceremony (red carpet, paparazzi....) kind of weird.

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

nitro,

I head Sean Hannity recommend the movie strongly (even though he hadn't seen it) in order to refocus people on the dangers of terrorism...which in my opinion has everything to do with keeping the fear alive.

It really is not our job as ordinary citizens to think about terrorism.

Isn't that why we pay taxes? To have a military, intelligence agencies, etc to do their job? It was not the American people that led to a failure of intelligence surrounding 911....

This need to reinvigorate strong emotions of fear or anger, serve not to strengthen reason and sound decisions making, but rather to serve to keep people on an emotional level where they can continue to be manipulated by our leadership.

Imagine if we had a leadership who following 911 was not dramatic, who did not overly engage the emotions, who told people to just relax and get back to work....and then rather quietly went about getting the job done of capturing those responsible (a job that Bush has failed to do by the way).

Are we really better off by this constant engagement of emotions, or are we better off being reasonable about the state of the world, the messes we have made in our foreign policy, and what it will take to clean things up?

I didn't see Fahrenheit 911 at the theaters, and I don't need to see this piece of "history" either....

Quote from nitro:

I can only speak for myself in this case, but I have noticed that the farther the time that passes between an event for me, the more it becomes part of what I deem normal. It becomes a kind of abstraction. However, seeing it again at the theatre, perhaps in the company of others brought back to me what I felt that day - anger, confusion, despair, why? Could that have been achieved if I had watched it at home by myself? I don't know since that is not what happened.



I am not sure what conclusion to reach from my experience, but this would not be the one I would reach.



No need to apologize. I have no statistics on why other people go to movies, but what you propose seems reasonable. However I go for a myriad more reasons than the reason you give that "most" people go to theaters.


Perhaps, but if it has the effect then I make no distinction between this way of "getting in touch" and some other way. The effect is the same. That said, I don't reach the conclusions you reach from my experience.

nitro

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

The thought of the attacks don't move me, nor does most tragedy.

Acting on reason is the preferred method in my opinion.

There was too much emotional reaction following 911 that lead to stupid decision making like the Patriot Act and the war in Iraq.

Idiots were out buying duct tape on the advice of our leadership....

We need leaders who lead people to reason, not their reactive emotions.

Quote from traderNik:

So the very thought of the attacks are enough to move you?

Ah, I see.. in that case, Z, would you care to comment about your suggestion that a good joke would be to suggest to another ET member that his kid's might be subject to pedophilic attack? I am having a bit of trouble reconciling these two statements. Would not the very thought of such an attack be enough to move you not to make such a joke?

Thanks as always.

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

Mr. Content, whitster speaks....

Bwaaahaahaaaaahaaaaaa......

Quote from whitster:

he's a troll, tradernik

his posts must be for "effect"

they certainly aren't made for content

 

[frank grimes]

I thought this was the plane that landed in Cleveland? And somehow the bad guys (the Bush kabal) has kept ALL these people quiet? So this movie is a total fruad on the American idiots?

 

[nitro]

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

nitro,

I head Sean Hannity recommend the movie strongly (even though he hadn't seen it) in order to refocus people on the dangers of terrorism...which in my opinion has everything to do with keeping the fear alive.

Z10, while I agree that most people overreact to most events, as we witness almost daily in the markets, I don't think that seeing a movie about an event that took place is an over reaction. In fact, given what I know now, I was able to view it far more objectively than while it was happening. It doesn't mean that I was any less emotional about it, but I think I could handle keeping my emotions in check while still being objective. That doesn't mean I shut my emotions down, it just means that this time around I saw the events with a more multidimensional view.

It really is not our job as ordinary citizens to think about terrorism.

Perhaps no directly. But indirectly it certainly is. We grade our leaders on many fronts, and how they deal with current events, terrorism whether it be from the middle east or otherwise is one of them. We also take the temperature of a society by the way others see us. If we can drive a people to such extremes, it is worth reflecting on.

Isn't that why we pay taxes? To have a military, intelligence agencies, etc to do their job? It was not the American people that led to a failure of intelligence surrounding 911....

We pay taxes for many reasons. The fact that I pay my taxes means that I wil be back to account for them at voting time. Our handling of current events and our foreign policy is one of those grades.

Also, I think that many that go to see this film are poltically inclined so many go to see it for exactly the reason that it is their business to care about it. Why have reporters in any form of media if it is not our business to care about it? Who holds the powers that be accountable? Are the citizens of the United States of America not the only boss that can hold a president and an administration accountable?

This need to reinvigorate strong emotions of fear or anger, serve not to strengthen reason and sound decisions making, but rather to serve to keep people on an emotional level where they can continue to be manipulated by our leadership.

I do see your point, and while the movie may indeed be some form of propaganda, I just found it to be an honest documentary from our point of view.

Imagine if we had a leadership who following 911 was not dramatic, who did not overly engage the emotions, who told people to just relax and get back to work....and then rather quietly went about getting the job done of capturing those responsible (a job that Bush has failed to do by the way).

Z10, I would have been really worried that these were the people that ran our country in that case. I don't see emotion as some sort of blinding light, but as a compass to guide our rationality.

Are we really better off by this constant engagement of emotions, or are we better off being reasonable about the state of the world, the messes we have made in our foreign policy, and what it will take to clean things up?

I don't see them as being mutually exclusive. I expect leaders that are both rational and emotional. I assume they are human beings and not aliens. Like John F. Kennedy during the Cuban Missile Crisis, I hope that our leaders are mosly rational and that at the end of the day that is the way decisions are made. But I don't expect them to be machines either.

I didn't see Fahrenheit 911 at the theaters, and I don't need to see this piece of "history" either....

ok.

nitro

 

[whitster]

lol. spoken like a true big govt. nanny state collectivist.

"It really is not our job as ordinary citizens to think about terrorism."

it is just as much our job to speak about, and be vigilant about detecting terrorism, as it is our job as CITIZENS in a FREE NATION to be vigilant in thinking about and recognizing and fighting racism, sexism, and any other threats to our sovereignty and freedom

this is so telling as an insight into this type of mindset.

the things that make us great as a nation are rule of law, individual rights, etc. this is exemplified in a system that fully empowers individuals and recognizes their RIGHT to free expression, self defense (2nd amendment), etc.

one of the things that made the civil rights movement so successful was the involvement of citizens from every walk of life, in marching, in protesting, and in refusing to give in to racism and oppression e.g. Rosa Parks

terrorism is no different.

collectivists like ZZZ don't like that rights (and responsibilities) rest with a FREE people to make up our own minds about about ideas, etc.

Schindler's List was an important movie. It *is* our job to think about anti-semitism and fascism

But the current fascists are the islamofascists. and this movie is not only relevant, but much more current. the third reich is no more, stalin is no more, but the legacy lives on in the latest wave of similarly motivated scum - the islamofascists.

these people have *literally* declared war on the west, on freedom, on ALL infidels - jews, christians, atheists, buddhists, hindus. They riot and murder over cartoons, and over movies they don't like (killing the filmmaker in that case). They feed, much like the nazis and the stalinists did, on weakness, on it "not being the job" of everyday citizens to recognize as evil as EVIL.

it has been said that "all that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing", and that is just as true vis a vis terrorism as it is/was with slavery, racism, fascism, and stalinism

fortunately for us, we have men and women in this country who ARE vigilant about defending freedom and our way of life. the leeches of society will always ride the coattails of the true patriots.

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

You have name calling down.

Next you could work on making a logical argument....

LOL...

Quote from whitster:

lol. spoken like a true big govt. nanny state collectivist.

"It really is not our job as ordinary citizens to think about terrorism."

it is just as much our job to speak about, and be vigilant about detecting terrorism, as it is our job as CITIZENS in a FREE NATION to be vigilant in thinking about and recognizing and fighting racism, sexism, and any other threats to our sovereignty and freedom

this is so telling as an insight into this type of mindset.

the things that make us great as a nation are rule of law, individual rights, etc. this is exemplified in a system that fully empowers individuals and recognizes their RIGHT to free expression, self defense (2nd amendment), etc.

one of the things that made the civil rights movement so successful was the involvement of citizens from every walk of life, in marching, in protesting, and in refusing to give in to racism and oppression e.g. Rosa Parks

terrorism is no different.

collectivists like ZZZ don't like that rights (and responsibilities) rest with a FREE people to make up our own minds about about ideas, etc.

Schindler's List was an important movie. It *is* our job to think about anti-semitism and fascism

But the current fascists are the islamofascists. and this movie is not only relevant, but much more current. the third reich is no more, stalin is no more, but the legacy lives on in the latest wave of similarly motivated scum - the islamofascists.

these people have *literally* declared war on the west, on freedom, on ALL infidels - jews, christians, atheists, buddhists, hindus. They riot and murder over cartoons, and over movies they don't like (killing the filmmaker in that case). They feed, much like the nazis and the stalinists did, on weakness, on it "not being the job" of everyday citizens to recognize as evil as EVIL.

it has been said that "all that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing", and that is just as true vis a vis terrorism as it is/was with slavery, racism, fascism, and stalinism

fortunately for us, we have men and women in this country who ARE vigilant about defending freedom and our way of life. the leeches of society will always ride the coattails of the true patriots.