Unions

[nutmeg]

I'm begining to rethink my position on unions.If our current fiscal crisis crushes the unions, we are going to lose our middle class for sure.

Political fiscal responsibilty is absent everywhere.If we gut the union pig, the money that is saved is going to end up increasing entitlements and servicing increasing debt.

After years of outsourcing what were once good paying jobs, now we are going to destroy any good paying jobs which can't be outsourced. How can this be a benefit to anyone?

Will busting a public union create an efficient economy?

Imo, Any money saved with public union give backs or greater contributions is going to end up in the toilet.

Will union givebacks which result in savings to various levels of gov't save me any money on taxes?

 

[morganist]

Quote from nutmeg:

I'm begining to rethink my position on unions.If our current fiscal crisis crushes the unions, we are going to lose our middle class for sure.

Political fiscal responsibilty is absent everywhere.If we gut the union pig, the money that is saved is going to end up increasing entitlements and servicing increasing debt.

After years of outsourcing what were once good paying jobs, now we are going to destroy any good paying jobs which can't be outsourced. How can this be a benefit to anyone?

Will busting a public union create an efficient economy?

Imo, Any money saved with public union give backs or greater contributions is going to end up in the toilet.

Will union givebacks which result in savings to various levels of gov't save me any money on taxes?

Personally I think Unions are useless anyway. They don't really work. The only time there is any real change is when something big happens. Something big is about to happen. Therefore Unions are no longer that relevant.

 

[Stok]

The problem is in public sector unions and the raping of the treasury. In private sector, unions aren't going anywhere, but market forces get them in check. In the pubic sector, it is the most corrupt "I scratch your back....." system, with the unions in bed with the democrats. Money and outrages benefits (which the public pays for via taxes) in exchange for votes....it is a criminal as they come.

Read this:

http://www.stansberryresearch.com/pub/reports/201112PSI_issue.html

 

[denner]

Quote from Stok:

The problem is in public sector unions and the raping of the treasury. In private sector, unions aren't going anywhere, but market forces get them in check. In the pubic sector, it is the most corrupt "I scratch your back....." system, with the unions in bed with the democrats. Money and outrages benefits (which the public pays for via taxes) in exchange for votes....it is a criminal as they come.

Read this:

http://www.stansberryresearch.com/pub/reports/201112PSI_issue.html

I agree with this, however I'm also party in agreement with the OP, but I'd argue that getting those escalating public pension liabilities under control should be the top priority. As to whether or not the money is flushed down the toilet is another topic.

 

[lorax2013]

To me this argument sort of boils down to: if the unions don't steal and partially waste the money, then someone even more corrupt will steal and totally waste the money. I don't find it a convincing argument to justify public sector unions actions as acceptable more than any other parasitic special interest.

However, I do agree completely with your apparent point that others are stealing from the productive class far worse than public unions. Personally, public sector union busting wouldn't even show up on my radar as a top concern in our society today. I think it's used mostly as one of the countless divisive issues which keep people distracted.

To me the real problem is that the banks have a stranglehold on not only our currency but the government and taxpayer's wallet as well. Secondly I'd say a big problem is the entire counterproductive entitlement scheme. If a politician or a citizen isn't focused mostly on these two issues then I think they are missing the point.

 

[denner]

Quote from lorax2013:

To me this argument sort of boils down to: if the unions don't steal and partially waste the money, then someone even more corrupt will steal and totally waste the money. I don't find it a convincing argument to justify public sector unions actions as acceptable more than any other parasitic special interest.

However, I do agree completely with your apparent point that others are stealing from the productive class far worse than public unions. Personally, public sector union busting wouldn't even show up on my radar as a top concern in our society today. I think it's used mostly as one of the countless divisive issues which keep people distracted.

To me the real problem is that the banks have a stranglehold on not only our currency but the government and taxpayer's wallet as well. Secondly I'd say a big problem is the entire counterproductive entitlement scheme. If a politician or a citizen isn't focused mostly on these two issues then I think they are missing the point.

Good points, but the public sector entitlement is a serious anchor to the finances of many states. It's no coincidence that the state's with some of the worst credit ratings have the most onerous pension liabilities with very limited prospects for fulfilling these future benefits.

 

[toc]

Unions are misused often like in public sector but are very necessary to give some respect to common employees in terms of wages and benefits. Higher wages result in more consumption by the employees and thus economic growth. Also majority of workers will end up taking any wages offered just to pay bills for another two weeks and before you know most of the jobs are paying bordering minimum wages or around. Unions protect such vulnerable folks from signing into slave wage structures.


One King and Thousand Servants does not make any sense.

 

[zdreg]

Quote from toc:

Unions are misused often like in public sector but are very necessary to give some respect to common employees in terms of wages and benefits. Higher wages result in more consumption by the employees and thus economic growth. Also majority of workers will end up taking any wages offered just to pay bills for another two weeks and before you know most of the jobs are paying bordering minimum wages or around. Unions protect such vulnerable folks from signing into slave wage structures.


One King and Thousand Servants does not make any sense.

how about 1 man and 10 wives?

there is a big difference between private sector union negotiations and public sector negotiations. basically in the public sector union members receive excessive wages and pensions because the politicians are buying their votes with somebody else's money.

In the private sector they are necessary. they are part of the right of individuals to bargain with their employers in the free market.
the same cannot be said for gov't workers since there is no free market but the coercive power of the gov't to tax the people.

the end result is they will bankrupt the states and the US in the same manner they bankrupted argentina etc.

 

[nutmeg]

Quote from zdreg:

the end result is they will bankrupt the states and the US in the same manner they bankrupted argentina etc.

So we have a toss up of who is going to bankrupct the state, the workers (unions) or the "welfare" recepients. Now if the answer is "both", those who are working are producing "something". If we are going to shit can the unions to maintain the benfits for the welfare system, I have a problem with that, hence rethinking my positions of unions as the bad guy.

 

[rc8222]

Unions should complain to one of their own (Bill Clinton) for signing NAFTA into law, guaranteeing the loss of hundreds of thousands of union jobs in America. Gee, I wonder these mental giant union turds will remember this as they continue to have Democrat political donations deducted from their paychecks. Idiots!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!!!!