Unethical Conduct by IB

cashola · Apr 27, 2006

I wouldn't waste my time or IB's until I checked the Audit in the JTS. With practice you can confirm cancels and fills in 10 to 20 seconds on your own. Clearly one should insure that a transaction confirmation # follows the request.
I wouldn't complain about the TWS help files or IB's level of instruction. This is a business where Billions of $ of yearly transactions flow through many of our accounts. Perhaps a healthy level of pananoia and redundant preparedness would be a prerequisite.
Any problem that is ambiquous with the Audit or clearly "wrong" should trigger a speed dial. (#1 on my trade station phone..and gathering dust I might add)

Bitstream · Apr 27, 2006

omfg; a lawyer to solve a simple'n'clear matter like this[?], dunno da size of da trade but am ready to guess that da size of da loss would prolly not even be enough to cover da legal costs, r0r

if ib is serious 'bout its biz shud come here discussin' its pos, i wudn't like it to find meself stuck with orders i deemed cancelled, suffer huge losses'n'be left holdin' da bag, wud ya[?]

independenceair · Apr 27, 2006

Try taping your session with a cam- corder attached to your shoulder or on your head or hire a witness to sit beside you with a notepad. I used to get trade confirmations for trades i never made on stocks i'd never heard of. Also the execution confirmation wouldn't show and I 'd have to call my discount broker on the phone to see if an order filled (not at I.B.)- waiting while on hold listening to a recording of them bragging about their services.
Sorry to hear about your troubles , hope it all turns out .

jimrockford · Apr 28, 2006

Quote from nassau:
question...are you saying that everytime a trader cancels an order and tws, the account window and your execution journal shows flat that you expect the trader to call IB to ensure the trade does not exist?

Quote from Bitstream:
soooo...jim, that's what u wanted him to do, innit[?]

ain't a touch unfair to blame some1 for not callin' up ib in order to make sure his order waz indeed cancelled, after it disappeared[?]r0r

Bitstream, you are wrong, that is not what I wanted him to do. I already posted a response to nassau, clearly stating that his description of my opinion is not correct.

I already explained that the IB procedure, for confirming a cancel, requires you to disregard the account window, disregard the execution window, disregard the disappearance of your order, and to look for the red-colored cancellation confirm signal, and to call IB immediately if that signal fails to show.

I don't think that this procedure is at all unfair. I think that the unfairness arises from IB's failure to provide effective communication of this procedure to the great majority of its customers. Htrader, for example, is a very sharp guy, but even he didn't understand the correct procedure. This thread is what convinced me that IB's communication of this procedure has been inadequate.

Please be more careful about inaccurately describing my posts, Bitstream.

TRADERguy · Apr 28, 2006

Quote from tomcole:

I dont know why this gets dragged out for a gazillion pages and posts. If you're serious about getting this resolved, get a lawyer and start taking depositions - otherwise you're just a whiner.

A whiner? I thought I started a thread, made one comment, and answered two questions.

jimrockford · Apr 28, 2006

Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

I quoted exactly what it says. Seems pretty clear to me. After it has been confirmed as cancelled, the order line will disappear.

Flaw in your logic.

Let A = proposition that order has been confirmed successfully cancelled.

Let B = proposition that order has disappeared from trading platform.

We were told that A implies B.

You misinterpeted this statement to say, in addition, that B implies A.

This is a classic mistake of logic. The fact that A implies B does not mean that B implies A.

Example:

Suppose

A = proposition that Jack is a convicted murderer, and

B = proposition that Jack is a convicted felon.

A clearly implies B, since all convicted murderers are also convicted felons. But B does not imply A, since you can be a convicted felon without being a convicted murderer.

We shouldn't have to do this type of analysis in order to understand documentation on how to operate a trading platform. Your misinterpretation helps persuade me that the documentation is inadequate, and will inevitably create trading losses and disputes. But I think it is unfair to call a broker "unethical" just because of poor documentation, or because of a failure to provide compensation for poorly written documentation. I do believe that the customer here deserves compensation, because the documentation apparently confused the vast majority of traders in regard to order cancellation procedures.

TRADERguy · Apr 28, 2006

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from IBj:

I am happy to present all facts (as well as address various points that have arisen in this thread) if the thread originator is willing to have details of the events surrounding his trade posted in this forum.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote from JackR:

Traderguy:

Are you going to accept IBj's offer? He said he will clear everything up for us if you give him permission to publish.

You did call them unethical, didn't you?

Jack

Not a problem. My name, my account number, the size of the trade, my account balance, and any other trades not related to this one are my personal business and not for public display. I have already shared what the audit trail says; IBj is welcome to confirm all that. The word for word transcript of the conversation I had with IB customer service can be posted as long as it excludes the aforementioned items.

I'm way overdue for sleep, I'll check back with this thread in the morning.

TRADERguy

WmWaster · Apr 28, 2006

TRADERguy,
Sorry to hear that abymsal experience.

So how are you going to sort this problem out?

Did you try to explain it's their fault and ask for compensation? How did they respond?
Would you try to sue them if they refuse to compensate?

Last but not least, my best advice is to switch to another broker. There's no reason to stick with a suxky broker after you have encountered such a bad experience.

Confirmation after 30 something minutes. Unacceptable!!

Xenia · Apr 28, 2006

4. At 10:38:23 the bid and the ask on IdealPro were both north of 1.2520; this was not during fast market conditions and they had not been fast of some time; so how was a limit order filled at 10:38:23 for 1.2474 about 50 pips south of the actual price ?

In order to answer your question you will have to find out the transaction time from your audit trail.

( SecurityExchange= IBFX; ... TransactTime= 20060427-XX:XX:XX )

Xenia · Apr 28, 2006

- at 10:01:31 I put in a limit order to sell the EUR/USD at 1.24785
- at 10:01:54 there is a OrderCancelRequest for my limit order to sell at 1.24735
- that is it till my order gets executed at 10:38:23

Check the 10:38 record and see if transaction time was before 10:01:54