UK trader arrested for May 2010 U.S. Stock market flash crash

[Pekelo]

Have you tried to trade against algos?

No and personally I don't care because it doesn't effect me. But there is no good reason flashing prices that one doesn't intend to keep, so end of discussion.

 

[sprstpd]

No and personally I don't care because it doesn't effect me. But there is no good reason flashing prices that one doesn't intend to keep, so end of discussion.

Since it doesn't effect you, then maybe you don't know how effective spoofing can be against the bots. It is an equalizer for human discretionary traders (if it were legal).

 

[bone]

Have you tried to trade against algos? Spoofing is the best way to profit from them considering most of them are just really really fast front-runners. It amazes me that any discretionary trader would actually be in favor of banning spoofing. It would be an effective tool to use against bots (if it weren't illegal).

Algorithmic trading strategies generally speaking are entering orders meant to be filled. The fact that you are too slow manually to compete with those orders is beside the point from a regulatory standpoint.

Spoofers are entering orders meant to subvert the integrity of the market and are in direct violation of long established exchange rules and regulatory laws. Specifically, the SEC expressly forbids "rigging quotes, prices or trades to create a false or deceptive picture of the demand for a security."

 

[athlonmank8]

Algorithmic trading strategies generally speaking are entering orders meant to be filled. The fact that you are too slow manually to compete with those orders is beside the point from a regulatory standpoint.

Spoofers are entering orders meant to subvert the integrity of the market and are in direct violation of long established exchange rules and regulatory laws. Specifically, the SEC expressly forbids "rigging quotes, prices or trades to create a false or deceptive picture of the demand for a security."

You think all filled orders by those algos are legit? Some are just creating order flow to m!nipulate. Not only that, but what service does front-running provide?

 

[bone]

You think all filled orders by those algos are legit? Some are just creating order flow to m!nipulate. Not only that, but what service does front-running provide?

1. Yes, if an algo is not crossing orders, quote stuffing or spoofing then the fills are completely legit, and 2. Newsflash - it’s been an ECN speed game for going on two decades now. You’re not going to beat them with a mouse and X-Trader.

 

[sprstpd]

Algorithmic trading strategies generally speaking are entering orders meant to be filled. The fact that you are too slow manually to compete with those orders is beside the point from a regulatory standpoint.

Spoofers are entering orders meant to subvert the integrity of the market and are in direct violation of long established exchange rules and regulatory laws. Specifically, the SEC expressly forbids "rigging quotes, prices or trades to create a false or deceptive picture of the demand for a security."

Every order placed in the market has a chance of being filled, even if the originator does not want it filled. That is the problem with your and the SEC's argument/law.

 

[bone]

Every order placed in the market has a chance of being filled, even if the originator does not want it filled. That is the problem with your and the SEC's argument/law.

Don't shit on me - I am simply explaining current reality as it exists at this very moment in time right or wrong, good or bad.

If you read the criminal complaint clearly, and you know something about how regulated electronic trading exchanges process ECN messages and orders - it's quite obvious to me at least that the complaint almost certainly IMO originated from the Chicago Mercantile Exchange and their legal department referred it directly to the appropriate regulators.

Crazy, wild, huge volume spoofing on the world's largest stock index futures product during prime trading hours is certainly twisting the dragon's tail. And the complainant in this case certainly in the end agreed to a consent decree, disgorged large sums of money, and ratted out everyone he utilized to undertake his enterprise.

 

[bone]

As a public service announcement - are you sick and tired of the algos and the spoofing and the gamesmanship ? Look at lengthening your trade holding time frame. Problem solved. The bots mean nothing to a swing trader - even a daily swing trader. It might even make you a better trader and improve your position management skills. Just a thought, my 2 cents and YMMV.

 

[d08]

So one guy with a spoofing program living in his parents basement can have that big of an impact on the GLOBAL markets?

In order for it to work, you have to have algo's front running or piggy-backing these orders. Who cares if these guys are being beat at their own game.

Call me cynical, but I see spoofing as an excellent way to "stress test" a market. What the fuck does the CFTC care about this guy for when it sounds like the whole damn system needs to be fixed.

Can someone give me a good reason why spoofing shouldn't be legal? Who's to decide what kind of order flow, and resting orders should be an element of price discovery??? It's CIRCULAR reasoning to begin with.....

I can only imagine the kind of crap the CFTC hasn't found yet.....

As long as the orders aren't phantom HFT orders, I'm okay with it. So if they get hit they will suffer as they should. Not flash some orders and pull them before any could execute.

 

[sprstpd]

Don't shit on me - I am simply explaining current reality as it exists at this very moment in time right or wrong, good or bad.

All your posts seem to be advocating that spoofing is bad when in fact it is just another tool. An especially useful tool against algo-bots. If you want me to get vulgar, I can.