Tradovate with Jigsaw Trading vs. X_Trader - reliability

[MrMuppet]

... So trading Eurex futures (Europe) from Sydney (Australia) through Jigsaw add-on at Amp Futures (USA) sounds way too slow as those milliseconds are now adding up, compared to something with "direct market access" such as QTrader (with AMP Futures)? So it sounds like by the time I click on the DOM, the market would have moved using Jigsaw. I'm sim trading with TT, but just looking to the future.

It really depends. I don't know if you are/were into competitive videogames but if so, try playing stuff like CS:GO, DoTa or Overwatch with a 200ms ping. There are reasons why those games have a dedicated server for each region.

So if your strategy is time sensitive, I wouldn't even consider trading EUREX from Oz, since no matter how good your setup is, you'll always be at a disadvantage compared to the guy who is sitting in e.g. the UK.

Trading EUREX from Oz through a Ninjatrader Add-On sounds terrible though...

So two possible options: trade your home market, expand your timeframe or tweak your execution from agressive to passive and make sure you use stops that are located on a server close to the exchange.

 

[Adam777]

It really depends. I don't know if you are/were into competitive videogames but if so, try playing stuff like CS:GO, DoTa or Overwatch with a 200ms ping. There are reasons why those games have a dedicated server for each region.

So if your strategy is time sensitive, I wouldn't even consider trading EUREX from Oz, since no matter how good your setup is, you'll always be at a disadvantage compared to the guy who is sitting in e.g. the UK.

Trading EUREX from Oz through a Ninjatrader Add-On sounds terrible though...

So two possible options: trade your home market, expand your timeframe or tweak your execution from agressive to passive and make sure you use stops that are located on a server close to the exchange.

Looking at the bund as I'm doing the Axia ladder training, but it does sound like I need to find passive setups as you mentioned. Garry Norden DOM trades FTSE (UK) from Oz, holding less than a minute, but it sounded like his book inferred trailing stops

 

[AlexxS]

Please help a newbie here: What exactly happens after I click a buy/sell order? Does the order go from the order entry software (TT, Jigsaw) to the broker and then to the exchange gateway or does it go directly from the order entry software to the exchange gateway?

 

[JigsawTrading]

Please help a newbie here: What exactly happens after I click a buy/sell order? Does the order go from the order entry software (TT, Jigsaw) to the broker and then to the exchange gateway or does it go directly from the order entry software to the exchange gateway?

If you have CQG... it goes something like this....

When you log in to CQG, you will be connected to the closest gateway. HK, London, Singapore, Chicago.

When you submit an order, it has to go through risk management. So wherever the trading account is assigned, a message has to go there.

If you are in London and trading Eurex, you would connect to London but you would want to make sure your account wasn't assigned to the US because regardless of the fact London is close to Frankfurt, you wouldn't want risk management check in the US.

 

[AlexxS]

If you have CQG... it goes something like this....

When you log in to CQG, you will be connected to the closest gateway. HK, London, Singapore, Chicago.

When you submit an order, it has to go through risk management. So wherever the trading account is assigned, a message has to go there.

If you are in London and trading Eurex, you would connect to London but you would want to make sure your account wasn't assigned to the US because regardless of the fact London is close to Frankfurt, you wouldn't want risk management check in the US.

Thanks you, much appreciated (and also noted that you used CQG as an example ).
So it would go like this:

Trader clicks -> software sends it to the servers owned by the software company -> from there it goes to the assigned server owned by the broker (e.g. HK, London) for a risk check -> broker send it to the exchange gateway? Hence if you are a scalper, you would want the software's servers and your broker's servers to be a) as close to each other as possible and b) as close to the exchange as possible? Is that correct?

 

[JigsawTrading]

Thanks you, much appreciated (and also noted that you used CQG as an example ).
So it would go like this:

Trader clicks -> software sends it to the servers owned by the software company -> from there it goes to the assigned server owned by the broker (e.g. HK, London) for a risk check -> broker send it to the exchange gateway? Hence if you are a scalper, you would want the software's servers and your broker's servers to be a) as close to each other as possible and b) as close to the exchange as possible? Is that correct?

Agreed - it's this additional hop that many people forget about with cloud software....

With Jigsaw/Tradovate, there are 2 options....

1 - Jigsaw on top of the Tradovate platform
2 - Jigsaw connecting straight to the CQG Feed

If you are a scalper, option 2 is the better one in my opinion.

 

[Tradovate]

Agreed - it's this additional hop that many people forget about with cloud software....

With Jigsaw/Tradovate, there are 2 options....

1 - Jigsaw on top of the Tradovate platform
2 - Jigsaw connecting straight to the CQG Feed

If you are a scalper, option 2 is the better one in my opinion.

Looking at the numbers users actually prefer option #1 - Jigsaw integrated into Tradovate. There may be a very slight difference in how Jigsaw displays the quotes (pulling them out of Tradovate) but unless you are a HFT it is negligible. More importantly, the value add of Tradovate outweighs this minuscule difference. With the integrated solution, you get Tradovate's on-demand market replay. This is a powerful training tool showing complete market depth and allowing for replay simulation. In addition, other features like time released orders, server-side multi-brackets, daily loss limits, ability to trade on Mac and Mobile, unlimited-simulation account, additional charting and more provide a powerful value proposition. Not only are the benefits greater the cost is lower as well. With this solution there are no order routing or CQG connection fees.

In any event, that is why Tradovate offers both. You can choose. Either way the value of Jigsaw at Tradovate is unmatched.

 

[AlexxS]

Agreed - it's this additional hop that many people forget about with cloud software....

With Jigsaw/Tradovate, there are 2 options....

1 - Jigsaw on top of the Tradovate platform
2 - Jigsaw connecting straight to the CQG Feed

If you are a scalper, option 2 is the better one in my opinion.

Got it thanks.
To those interested, I found a good article about futures transaction flow here:

https://www.finextra.com/blogpostin...futures-transaction-flow---basic-introduction

What I still don't quite understand (and I'm beginning to think that I have a fundamental understanding problem here) is where the execution software fits in. The diagram in the article shows the order to go from trader directly to FCM, but mentions that it can be hosted by the technology vendor data center. Does that mean that in some cases, the FCM hosts the execution software and in other cases, the execution software handles the order for the FCM?

So let's say I connect Jigsaw straight to the CQG Feed, my order would go directly to the FMC's servers, right? Why would it matter whether I use Jigsaw or TT, it's all the same since neither Jigsaw's nor TT's Servers are involved (since I would not be using any cloud software).

 

[JigsawTrading]

Got it thanks.
To those interested, I found a good article about futures transaction flow here:

https://www.finextra.com/blogpostin...futures-transaction-flow---basic-introduction

What I still don't quite understand (and I'm beginning to think that I have a fundamental understanding problem here) is where the execution software fits in. The diagram in the article shows the order to go from trader directly to FCM, but mentions that it can be hosted by the technology vendor data center. Does that mean that in some cases, the FCM hosts the execution software and in other cases, the execution software handles the order for the FCM?

So let's say I connect Jigsaw straight to the CQG Feed, my order would go directly to the FMC's servers, right? Why would it matter whether I use Jigsaw or TT, it's all the same since neither Jigsaw's nor TT's Servers are involved (since I would not be using any cloud software).

Alex

My understanding is that if you use CQG, then the order routing would be the same regardless of which front end you have.

Cheers

Pete

 

[AlexxS]

Alex

My understanding is that if you use CQG, then the order routing would be the same regardless of which front end you have.

Cheers

Pete

Thanks for your reply.
There is surprisingly little information on the web regarding order routing, or maybe I just didn't look hard enough. I re-read the thread and one thing MrMuppet said stood out to me:

Peter,

- I won't use anything that has a third party datafeed

- I won't use anything that is managed and maintaned by brokers, e.g. a whitelabel that's running on an FCM server, where I don't know if hardware is up to date or if it's a ten year old blade and the technician is actually a remote maintainance guy from India.

Things are starting to make more sense to me. What I did not know is that TT has it's own data feed (see how newbie I am!). So the way I understand it is

1) if you use TT, then TT handles the order for the FCM (pre trade risk check).
2) if you use Jigsaw standalone with CQG, then CQG handles the order for the FCM.
3) if you use Jigsaw with Tradovate, then the order goes to your broker first and then the broker sends it to the exchange.

Is that correct? And Mr Muppet is concerned that
a) Jigsaw uses a third party data feed (as opposed to TT) and
b) in the case of Jigsaw with Tradovate, he does not know where the servers are and how up to date they are.
Sorry for hijacking the thread and all my questions.