Trading sucks, dont waste your time
- Thread starter myminitrading
- Start date
Why don't you load a gun, drink some whiskey, and take things where they go....
You should hang up the "English" too because you're mentally damaged and can't even spell simple words correctly let alone the correct instance of "too." Perhaps the Jews fed your mom the booze she drank when she was pregnant with you and that's why you have so many defects. They made you the way you are....sad!
Do you believe in any more insanely stupid conspiracy theories I can laugh at? This is fun!
a little late to chime in, but the 1st buy every dipshit has bitten the dust. The volatility now is nothing compared to the halycon days of '99-2002. I remember when the market was bottoming in 6/02 into 10/02. the swings were unreal. The triple witches of those months almost made me as much $ as eqt trdr has made since '03! By the way has he gotten back from his rodeo dr. "shopping spree" yet!
there is a false dichotomy here between trading and investing.
they don't compete with each other. while they happen to use (generally) the same instruments, the goals, methodologies, risks, rewards, etc. are quite different.
neither is "better". it would be like saying track and field is better than basketball.
to make money at all in trading (espeically intraday) is difficult. it is something that WILL consume your time, and that you must treat as a business, have 100% concentration, etc.
to make money at investing is quite easy. there has never been a rolling 20 yr period in HISTORY that did not deliver positive gains if you dollar cost averaged (and DCA'ing is the soul of investing for the AVERAGE investor), and in the vast majority of cases it was among the best asset classes to be in - better than bonds, metals, real estate, etc.
i day trade futures for income. the VAST majority who try this WILL lose money. and many will come on elitetrader etc. and whine about how making $$ can't be done, it's too hard, etc.
cry me a frigging river. the vast majority of retail traders do not do what needs to be done to be successful, and will continue to be great liquidity providers and that's it.
there has never been a greater area for wealth creation (both individually and for the economy as a whole) than the stock market. investing is smart. but it is NOT trading.
a very good trader can make far far far more than most investors. but it is MUCH more difficult and a very very different skill/art/business than investing.
the rules are also quite different.
they don't compete with each other. while they happen to use (generally) the same instruments, the goals, methodologies, risks, rewards, etc. are quite different.
neither is "better". it would be like saying track and field is better than basketball.
to make money at all in trading (espeically intraday) is difficult. it is something that WILL consume your time, and that you must treat as a business, have 100% concentration, etc.
to make money at investing is quite easy. there has never been a rolling 20 yr period in HISTORY that did not deliver positive gains if you dollar cost averaged (and DCA'ing is the soul of investing for the AVERAGE investor), and in the vast majority of cases it was among the best asset classes to be in - better than bonds, metals, real estate, etc.
i day trade futures for income. the VAST majority who try this WILL lose money. and many will come on elitetrader etc. and whine about how making $$ can't be done, it's too hard, etc.
cry me a frigging river. the vast majority of retail traders do not do what needs to be done to be successful, and will continue to be great liquidity providers and that's it.
there has never been a greater area for wealth creation (both individually and for the economy as a whole) than the stock market. investing is smart. but it is NOT trading.
a very good trader can make far far far more than most investors. but it is MUCH more difficult and a very very different skill/art/business than investing.
the rules are also quite different.
Good post. I do disagree slightly with a few things you said.
For wealth creation? Real Estate trumps the fuck out of trading. It's also much more secure in my opinion if you buy wisely...also, real estate lets you have a property with the cost of owning it paid by others while it appreciates in value and the mortgage is paid down.
I don't know that a very good trader can make far far far more than most investors. You could just as easily say the opposite I'd think. I've not seen too many traders return 300%+/year consistently like I have a few investors I know. While they invest in small caps almost exclusively, they hit one home run a year and they're golden.
I'm sure there are traders out there that do it, but there are also investors who probably do 1000%+/year that you've never heard of the same way you've never heard of the trader that does the same.
Maybe we'll just disagree on this point. Cheers.
"For wealth creation? Real Estate trumps the fuck out of trading. It's also much more secure in my opinion if you buy wisely...also, real estate lets you have a property with the cost of owning it paid by others while it appreciates in value and the mortgage is paid down. "
that is false. we have just had a PHENOMENAL real estate bubble. extrapolating from this bubble to a generality is a logical fallacy. there have been long periods of time when real estate investing (for the average gent) is much much more difficult. making money in this real estate bubble was very easy. buy, then sell. don't confuse genius with a bull market
for the average investor it is more difficult to do real estate investing. (it is also much more highly leveraged).
like i said, in the vast majority of rolling 20 yr periods, investing in stocks gave a better return than real estate. furthermore, it requires less capital, and FAR less transaction costs.
"I don't know that a very good trader can make far far far more than most investors. You could just as easily say the opposite I'd think. I've not seen too many traders return 300%+/year consistently like I have a few investors I know. While they invest in small caps almost exclusively, they hit one home run a year and they're golden. "
if they make their year from one homerun, then they are taking FAR too much risk by not diversifying and are not doing classic INVESTING (which was what i referenced) but SPECULATING (Which is another thing entirely).
i had two MASSIVE winners in my investment accounts recently - RNAI and DNDN. the former gave over 300% and latter over 500%. but neither made up more than 5% of my portfolio in initial outlay. why? because when u invest, you diversify to decrease risk.
if you are making big bets in any one issue, you are speculating. of course the returns can be outsized, but so is the risk.
"I'm sure there are traders out there that do it, but there are also investors who probably do 1000%+/year that you've never heard of the same way you've never heard of the trader that does the same. "
look, i am talking generalities. outliers are not the issue
in general, the VAST majority of investors who simply dollar cost average into basic, good, well-valued companies will make money, and they will have low transactions costs, and little risk. and over every 20 yr period in history, it's been a money making venture.
otoh, the VAST majority of day TRADERS will lose money.
those are simply the facts.
trading is about speculating on price movements. investing is about buying good companies
they are different paradigms.
that is false. we have just had a PHENOMENAL real estate bubble. extrapolating from this bubble to a generality is a logical fallacy. there have been long periods of time when real estate investing (for the average gent) is much much more difficult. making money in this real estate bubble was very easy. buy, then sell. don't confuse genius with a bull market
for the average investor it is more difficult to do real estate investing. (it is also much more highly leveraged).
like i said, in the vast majority of rolling 20 yr periods, investing in stocks gave a better return than real estate. furthermore, it requires less capital, and FAR less transaction costs.
"I don't know that a very good trader can make far far far more than most investors. You could just as easily say the opposite I'd think. I've not seen too many traders return 300%+/year consistently like I have a few investors I know. While they invest in small caps almost exclusively, they hit one home run a year and they're golden. "
if they make their year from one homerun, then they are taking FAR too much risk by not diversifying and are not doing classic INVESTING (which was what i referenced) but SPECULATING (Which is another thing entirely).
i had two MASSIVE winners in my investment accounts recently - RNAI and DNDN. the former gave over 300% and latter over 500%. but neither made up more than 5% of my portfolio in initial outlay. why? because when u invest, you diversify to decrease risk.
if you are making big bets in any one issue, you are speculating. of course the returns can be outsized, but so is the risk.
"I'm sure there are traders out there that do it, but there are also investors who probably do 1000%+/year that you've never heard of the same way you've never heard of the trader that does the same. "
look, i am talking generalities. outliers are not the issue
in general, the VAST majority of investors who simply dollar cost average into basic, good, well-valued companies will make money, and they will have low transactions costs, and little risk. and over every 20 yr period in history, it's been a money making venture.
otoh, the VAST majority of day TRADERS will lose money.
those are simply the facts.
trading is about speculating on price movements. investing is about buying good companies
they are different paradigms.
Your points are well taken, but I disagree. I have to get ready for a trip and can't respond with detail, sorry.
They guys I know who have made such returns study and do due diligence that could/would/probably puts many investments houses to shame. Mostly because they feel out management and businesses. They're investing in small caps and they're not aiming for one home run. Your assumption about that is wrong.
Regarding real estate. You're very right about the investment. Just because we went through a bubble, that doesn't mean real estate rentals won't do well. They probably will. If you can buy property, have others pay the mortgage, and then use that accumulated equity to buy more property in larger size then you have something that trumps investing for me.
I don't think you can say that trading gives you the same stability and safety that proper real estate ownership does in any way. Investing either in reality unless you're heavily hedged in which case you're likely cutting off some profit potential. Real Estate is far superior from a stress/income ratio in my opinion.
We have different perspectives clearly. What you say makes sense, but I do disagree on both counts.
Cheers and while I'd love to spend more time discussing this topic, I can't.
Cheers and take care.
They guys I know who have made such returns study and do due diligence that could/would/probably puts many investments houses to shame. Mostly because they feel out management and businesses. They're investing in small caps and they're not aiming for one home run. Your assumption about that is wrong.
Regarding real estate. You're very right about the investment. Just because we went through a bubble, that doesn't mean real estate rentals won't do well. They probably will. If you can buy property, have others pay the mortgage, and then use that accumulated equity to buy more property in larger size then you have something that trumps investing for me.
I don't think you can say that trading gives you the same stability and safety that proper real estate ownership does in any way. Investing either in reality unless you're heavily hedged in which case you're likely cutting off some profit potential. Real Estate is far superior from a stress/income ratio in my opinion.
We have different perspectives clearly. What you say makes sense, but I do disagree on both counts.
Cheers and while I'd love to spend more time discussing this topic, I can't.
Cheers and take care.