Trading needs the same "revolution" that martial arts went through 15 years ago

[Gringinho]

Quote from bjjtrader:

Youre clearly ignorant. I wrestled in highschool and was quite good. I probably know more about wrestling than you, since I wrestle every week.

BJJ/Judo are not easy to take down, you have no idea what you are talking about. Of course wrestlers own the takedown, its their focus, like Judo owns the throw and BJJ owns the sub. Whats your point?

But any of the 3 can easily take down an average joe opponent.

The majority of MMA fighters actually have a wrestling or BJJ base. Its virtually tied.
The sherdog current fight style list shows this
http://sherdog.com/stats/powerratings/upr-styles-current

Considering the USA wrestling culture, im surprised wrestling isnt way ahead of all other styles. If this was fairly weighted by country populations, brazillian jiu jitsu would be far ahead of wrestling for sure. There simply are easily 10X wrestling practitioners in the states. Yet BJJ is neck and neck as a style base in MMA with wrestling.

Wrestling is very prolific in the US, and weak elsewhere except some small pockets around the world - like Turkey, Africa etc. It is true that wrestlers have the best takedowns and takedown defense - it is all their focus. Wrestlers are also the worst finishers of any type of fighter - they absolutely suck and are truly boring.

You need to study wrestling techniques if you want to be successful in MMA sports.

If you want to survive, you need a brain more than anything else.

 

[Fractals 'R Us]

Quote from Gringinho:

IronFist, bjjtrader and some others...

You guys are all missing the point.
I have trained ITF TKD, Hapkido, Kickboxing, Sambo, Judo and some other less known systems. The SBGi boxing stuff is also great, and monkey boxing rules.

My point is that it is ALL about the fighter - and him not being "religious" about any fighting style - that is basically what MMA is - being all eclectic and adapting to your best skills and your opponent with the best possible "game plan" - which is why e.g Randy Couture is so successful. Some like Fedor and Anderson Silva are just on another planet when it comes to talent and being able to adjust.

Sure, there are people who suck eggs in every style there is - but there are also many great practitioners who "grow out" of any single system. For decades, there has been the trend of "evolving" - Bruce Lee with his Jett Kune Do was the strongest proponent for this philosophy. I know so many who train in different styles - and that is what it is all about - being able to adapt to any situation, and apply the most effective technique.

Those who try to follow strict rules of engagement are not the ones who will be standing on the top in the end of an open competition. I have participated in international full contact competitions with kickboxers, kyokushinkai, TKD and others - and although there were strict rules - the winners emerged from all kind of styles.

Trying to prove one system as superior to another is just bullshit, you need to know every system and keep an open mind. You guys trying to belittle other systems are simply clueless. You know nothing of the background and history of great fighters in your ignorance. Mas Oyama evolved, as did Bas Rutten, Anderson Silva, Randy Couture and all of the pancration history - and MMA today.

Agreed, that was another thing those guys I learned from talked about, they said to master one art then go on to be a master of the arts.. the guy I was leaning from could get BEHIND an opponent before they knew it!! He was a little guy, the guy above him in the small but happy organization was a columnist for a karate magazine and he could grab your arm and cause your legs to go weak Tai Chi style, they both were masters in their own right... gadz, i was just wandering around one day and found a flyer for their new school near where I lived and I signed up, what an incredible opportunity that was... they were looking for beta testers for all sorts of new stuff they were synthesizing and they had 50 years' experience between them...

Regarding OODA, [observe, orient, decide, act] if you simplify your art [learn a thousand techniques to find 3 that you like] and practice a bit the "orient, decide, and act" parts all sort of blend, that cannot happen until your thinking is very, very simple, like on the level of "judge the direction and power of an attack", "at the other end of a punch is a neck".. etc.. that stuff is not about style, it's about practicalities of taking an opponent out.......

 

[Gringinho]

Fractals,

yes - stay with smart people who have an open mind towards the future - just as in trading, being able to adapt to changing conditions quickly is how you keep ensuring your success. You need a strong integrity to be able to fortify this individuality - because so many followers and "religious" zealots will attack you intellectually in groups.

I hope you can see the central theme of approach to my philosophy in trading, fighting, career, politics etc.
It works which is all I can say.

 

[Fractals 'R Us]

The OODA thingy from the military thinkers is very useful in being forward looking. I heard of many traders that made money in 1999 and gave it back by 2001.. they failed to do the first two steps, observe and orient... amazingly stupid people in that regard, what surprises me is how many there were.....

 

[Gringinho]

Fractals,

people get "comfortable" in their own skins and stop evolving. It is called growing old - and your brain has no where to grow, and is all invested in old structures and beliefs... "can't teach an old dog new tricks". It is simply nature and evolution going it's course.

 

[Streetwise]

Quote from bjjtrader:

Youre clearly ignorant. I wrestled in highschool and was quite good. I probably know more about wrestling than you, since I wrestle every week.

I say you were / are a crap wrestler if you believe BJJ/Judo are not easy to take down when compared to a wrestler.

Quote from bjjtrader:

BJJ/Judo are not easy to take down, you have no idea what you are talking about. Of course wrestlers own the takedown, its their focus, like Judo owns the throw and BJJ owns the sub. Whats your point? [/QUOTE]

My point is that your point self contradictory see above .

what part of that is unclear ?

Wrestling has more and better throws than Judo. and the Judo clinch is shit.

Quote from bjjtrader:
But any of the 3 can easily take down an average joe opponent. [/QUOTE]


yeah bullshit , that's not what you siad at 1st. Re-read your own post unless you've modified it already

Quote from bjjtrader:
The majority of MMA fighters actually have a wrestling or BJJ base. Its virtually tied.[/QUOTE]

Which proves my point

Quote from bjjtrader:
Considering the USA wrestling culture, im surprised wrestling isnt way ahead of all other styles. If this was fairly weighted by country populations, brazillian jiu jitsu would be far ahead of wrestling for sure. There simply are easily 10X wrestling practitioners in the states. Yet BJJ is neck and neck as a style base in MMA with wrestling. [/QUOTE]

Depends who you consider a " mma fighter " .

if a thousand bums like you put your hand up then the stats would be unreliable .

 

[Gringinho]

Quote from Streetwise:

Wrestling has more and better throws than Judo. and the Judo clinch is shit.

The first part is just ridiculous - of course not, wrestling has not more or better throws than Judo or Sambo. Judo clinch is not good - agreed.

On the other hand, wrestling clinch is also not very good - depending on the objective. When it comes to inflicting damage or winning a fight, wrestling is just stupid.

A combination of Muay Thai, wrestling and Judo clinch is very good. BJJ has terrible standup and takedowns, but is good on the ground, however wrestling body control is also important - especially if little clothes are used. BJJ is good as long as you are not receiving a lot of strikes.

 

[acronym]

Quote from bjjtrader:


Considering the USA wrestling culture, im surprised wrestling isnt way ahead of all other styles. If this was fairly weighted by country populations, brazillian jiu jitsu would be far ahead of wrestling for sure. There simply are easily 10X wrestling practitioners in the states. Yet BJJ is neck and neck as a style base in MMA with wrestling.

Would you say, the traditional "catch as catch can" style carnival/real/world wrestling (fighting) fell out of favour due to the influence of hollywood, where everyone stands up and "fights like a man", or more the fact that, rather like 18th century england, the effective moves were outlawed and made illegal to study or practice, as they were absorbed into military training?

Greco -roman, isn't what judo jean, or Frank Gotch practiced, is what i mean.
That rhymed, unintentionally.

 

[Streetwise]

Quote from Gringinho:

The first part is just ridiculous - of course not, wrestling has not more or better throws than Judo or Sambo. Judo clinch is not good - agreed.

On the other hand, wrestling clinch is also not very good - depending on the objective. When it comes to inflicting damage or winning a fight, wrestling is just stupid.

A combination of Muay Thai, wrestling and Judo clinch is very good. BJJ has terrible standup and takedowns, but is good on the ground, however wrestling body control is also important - especially if little clothes are used. BJJ is good as long as you are not receiving a lot of strikes.

for a Brasilain you seem to know nada.

There are only 2/3 throws which are functional in Judo the rest are Jap trad masterbation crap.

All of them rely on grabbing clothes - 2/3 of the world live in hot climates like you.

How you gonna do sleve grab when the enemy wearing tight jeans and cut off T?

You gonna grab his hand , wrestler would easy do do a arm drag / slide by/ duck under to a variety of holds and throws.

MT clinch ? just 1 double plum ? joker.

Wrestling has all that and more.

And catch wrestling has better top than BJJ I tell you that , but the bottom game BJJ is better.

Now don't say you agree just cause I said it 1st !!

 

[bjjtrader]

Sorry G-man, but this isnt even debateable.

If styles didnt matter, then there wouldnt be such a tight statistical grouping of styles by MMA champs.

Randy Couture is ***NOT*** a Wing-Chung/Aikido/Tai-Chi master for a reason.

He does not even bother training Wing-Chun or Aikido or Tai-Chi for mma, and neither do any other REAL fighters for a reason.

You also cant claim "its the fighter" while pointing to MMA guys who train a mix of stuff, that doesnt make any sense. Apples and oranges. To determine if one style is superior, you must study it in its pure form against other styles. That has already happened in the early UFCs and other fighting orgs.

Are you ignoring the 100 random BJJ guy versus 100 random TKD thought experiments???

If styles didnt matter, then you could choose 100 random BJJ guys and make them fight 100 random tai-chi guys and you would get a 50/50 win/lose rate, but we know this is obviously not true. In this particular case it would probably be 100 to 0 for BJJ.
Maybe 99 to 1 due to a fluke.

STYLES MATTER, and its easily proven and has been proven mayny times. Its still proven to this day in MMA. Just look at what styles are clearly avoided in mma.

Quote from Gringinho:

IronFist, bjjtrader and some others...

You guys are all missing the point.
I have trained ITF TKD, Hapkido, Kickboxing, Sambo, Judo and some other less known systems. The SBGi boxing stuff is also great, and monkey boxing rules.

My point is that it is ALL about the fighter - and him not being "religious" about any fighting style - that is basically what MMA is - being all eclectic and adapting to your best skills and your opponent with the best possible "game plan" - which is why e.g Randy Couture is so successful. Some like Fedor and Anderson Silva are just on another planet when it comes to talent and being able to adjust.

Sure, there are people who suck eggs in every style there is - but there are also many great practitioners who "grow out" of any single system. For decades, there has been the trend of "evolving" - Bruce Lee with his Jeet Kune Do was the strongest proponent for this philosophy. I know so many who train in different styles - and that is what it is all about - being able to adapt to any situation, and apply the most effective technique.

Those who try to follow strict rules of engagement are not the ones who will be standing on the top in the end of an open competition. I have participated in international full contact competitions with kickboxers, kyokushinkai, TKD and others - and although there were strict rules - the winners emerged from all kind of styles.

Trying to prove one system as superior to another is just bullshit, you need to know every system and keep an open mind. You guys trying to belittle other systems are simply clueless. You know nothing of the background and history of great fighters in your ignorance. Mas Oyama evolved, as did Bas Rutten, Anderson Silva, Randy Couture and all of the pancration history - and MMA today.