Trading as a first career.

[sle]

Hmm. To be honest, finance is a shitty field and trading/PM is a shitty career in that field.

-- The time when you can make a ton and get out are almost certainly gone. Most easy opportunities anywhere are quickly dissipated by market-makers or funds.

-- As a trader, you are only as good as your last trade. Sooner or later your alpha runs out and you have to go back to the drawing board. Usually it happens at the worst possible moment too.

-- Social stigma is pretty real and, unless you are a delusional sociopath, the non-productive nature of finance will sooner of later will start nagging you.

-- A high pressure nature of the job does not make for a good long-term career. The "live by the sword, die by the sword" feels nice initially, but...

-- The consolation price is that you can with fair certainty find a supporting position if you are coming from a trading seat.

 

[wintergasp]

Hmm. To be honest, finance is a shitty field and trading/PM is a shitty career in that field.

-- The time when you can make a ton and get out are almost certainly gone. Most easy opportunities anywhere are quickly dissipated by market-makers or funds.

-- As a trader, you are only as good as your last trade. Sooner or later your alpha runs out and you have to go back to the drawing board. Usually it happens at the worst possible moment too.

-- Social stigma is pretty real and, unless you are a delusional sociopath, the non-productive nature of finance will sooner of later will start nagging you.

-- A high pressure nature of the job does not make for a good long-term career. The "live by the sword, die by the sword" feels nice initially, but...

-- The consolation price is that you can with fair certainty find a supporting position if you are coming from a trading seat.

I'm being curious, what's your personal work experience / position to say this & where did you work ?

I manage a book of risk worth more than 500m$ and I don't feel any of the things you mentioned, but this is probably very dependent on the company / geographic location / position in the company.

 

[sle]

When you say "worth 500m$" what are you measuring? I hope its average revenue and you are the primary PM

I have been doing this shit for some years, last few jobs in fairly senior roles. "Top" IBs and high AUM funds. Currently I am a primary PM at a fund. Anyway, I have enough perspective to know that while lucrative this job has a cost.

 

[sle]

I manage a book of risk worth more than 500m$ and I don't feel any of the things you mentioned.

Out of curiosity, you really don't feel like your alpha will run out at some point?

 

[wintergasp]

Out of curiosity, you really don't feel like your alpha will run out at some point?

I'm a systematic manager, I've looooong lost faith in discretionary managers, gut feelings etc. etc.

Lol unfortunately it's not my bonus. 500m$ AUM at 12% of annualized volatility.

Most of the company's business is in managed account so the money is measured in volatility or in risk because we don't know what sits on the custodian (in terms of size) in most cases.

I'm the equivalent of a portfolio manager, so I have a pot of money/risk on which I apply my main strategy. Other "PMs" have different strategies and my pot of money/risk changes often, based on the overall funds/managed accounts', it's up to the "Quant/PM" to hire the guys they want to help with research. But most of the important stuff is developed by the IT (the simulation engines, data manager etc.).

are you in london or new york ?

 

[emg]

Hi everyone,

Would appreciate some advice as a new trader.

I currently work in a prop firm and have been making money trading the ES o/n. Small but consistent amounts monthly.

The issue that has always been bugging me is that, what happens if a trader does not work out as a trader? That is the income isn't stable/sufficient for him/her to survive on. What would the possible routes be for a trader after?

I have been only trading about 5 months in the firm but have spent 2-3 years going through the fluff in trading. I do plan to do this for a year and see where this gets me and the past 5 months have actually exceeded my expectations.

However, there is always the 'what if' at the back of my head when things don't work out. Are there even any jobs that require trading experience apart from trading itself? 1 year isn't exactly a shit load of time so I'm quite willing to give it up to try this endeavor as compared to going into the working world and be a drone.

Thanks in advance!

Here is my advise:

More than 90% of small traders lose! They just lose!


Keep following the cycle and don't give up until you are dead broke.

 

[Michael J. Fletcher]

IMO these days it became too hard to be a successful day trader (I mean one who works for himself).

 

[Jamie J.]

Honestly, you will need a certain period of time to achieve a positive result of trade, to develop your own strategy and to be able to compete with a lot of other traders.

 

[Winjak]

IMO these days it became too hard to be a successful day trader (I mean one who works for himself).

I agree. Not much people can cope with all the problems which appear before the moment when someone can name himself a professional.
I'd advise novices to have a first mail job and trading as a second one. As you always should have Plan B if your trading won't work. And if you are a newbie, there are no guarantees it will work.

 

[s0mmi]

I agree. Not much people can cope with all the problems which appear before the moment when someone can name himself a professional.
I'd advise novices to have a first mail job and trading as a second one. As you always should have Plan B if your trading won't work. And if you are a newbie, there are no guarantees it will work.

Its true. Its extremely hard to do it yourself. This is why I have an open learning environment with my friends at my prop firm. Its extremely important to making sure people survive. Its not as easy as it used to be, but then again in a year or two there may be an 'easy' type of spread or product that most people can enter and not get blown apart on. These products seem to come and go and provide a stepping stone for a career. Even I got lucky and relied on one