traders who are deeply religious

[trainr]

Quote from Anti-Madder:

And, No, you did not. You did no such thing.

Actually, I did. I did I did I did.

You did not do the math required to calculate this. To achieve the result you claim to have attained requires a knowledge of physics

Yup, I learnt it in a place called “college” (in my pre-med days).

as well as the mathematical skill to "legally" perform a large array of biased tweaks within the equations. The whole exercise, if done without a preconceived conclusion would be pointless because the variables are so numerous that any result would have no value. Mankind does not know enough about the universe to construct a good enough equation to be worth computing. So to do it with a pre-conceived conclusion is the only reason to undertake it.

Okay, I didn’t do THAT math, but I did do the simple math that was required to reach an approximation. I wasn’t looking for the precision to set an atomic clock, nor was it required to answer the questions I was asking. I was actually trying to see whether the PhD who presented it to me was correct, and he was being just as general.

I'm not sensing that you're the guy who constructed such an equation.

Okay, your sensors are broke (it wasn’t much of an equation, nor was the complexity you describe required for the question at hand). Do you regularly engage in mind-reading? How many fingers ... never mind.

You don't even know it's a parlor trick.

Alternately, you don’t know that it’s not, as grammatically awkward as that sounds.

How could you have devised it.

Explained elsewhere.

 

[trainr]

Quote from vhehn:

it is amazing and amusing to watch the mental contortions believers will go through to make the story fit the book.

Hmm...and pasta tastes good with garlic.

This IS a contest of who can make the most irrelevant statement, right? (Do I win?)

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from trainr:

Hmm...and pasta tastes good with garlic.

This IS a contest of who can make the most irrelevant statement, right? (Do I win?)

please continue. the more you talk the more amusing it gets. i do not see the point though. i know of no christian sect who would accept your belief that 6 days = 14 billion years.

edit: in an effort to help you not look so foolish here is a site written by a christian that is the best i have found on geology and how it relates to the bible. might be wise to read it. http://home.entouch.net/dmd/dmd.htm


Often a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other parts of the world, about the motions and orbits of the stars and even their sizes and distances,... and this knowledge he holds with certainty from reason and experience. It is thus offensive and disgraceful for an unbeliever to hear a Christian talk nonsense about such things, claiming that what he is saying is based in Scripture. We should do all that we can to avoid such an embarrassing situation, which people see as ignorance in the Christian and laugh to scorn."
[St. Augustine,

 

[trainr]

Quote from vhehn: quoting trainr: Quote from trainr:

Hmm...and pasta tastes good with garlic.

This IS a contest of who can make the most irrelevant statement, right? (Do I win?)
please continue. the more you talk the more amusing it gets. i do not see the point though. i know of no christian sect who would accept your belief that 6 days = 14 billion years.

Okay, you win. That’s more irrelevant.

edit: in an effort to help you not look so foolish here is a site written by a christian that is the best i have found on geology and how it relates to the bible. might be wise to read it. http://home.entouch.net/dmd/dmd.htm

Okay, let me see if I understand you.

You want to create a belief by digging it up on the Internet and then tell me a) that is what I believe, or b) that is what I should believe, or c) that is what I should refrain from believing.

Okay, you’re still winning the Irrelevant Game.

Often a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other parts of the world, about the motions and orbits of the stars and even their sizes and distances,... and this knowledge he holds with certainty from reason and experience. It is thus offensive and disgraceful for an unbeliever to hear a Christian talk nonsense about such things, claiming that what he is saying is based in Scripture. We should do all that we can to avoid such an embarrassing situation, which people see as ignorance in the Christian and laugh to scorn."
[St. Augustine,

Yup, you win the Irrelevant Game, hands down. You're really good at it!

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from trainr:



You want to create a belief by digging it up on the Internet and then tell me a) that is what I believe, or b) that is what I should believe, or c) that is what I should refrain from believing.

[/B]

you can believe whatever you want. it takes all kinds. just don't be surprised if you keep getting shot down when you try to spread your nonsense as truth.
that is the difference between people like you and me. you want to spread a belief. i want to gain knowledge of the truth based on the evidence.

 

[marketsurfer]

there needs to be a differentiation between spiritual and religious. religion is untested dogma whereas spiritual is personal and very real to the experincer.

one must understand that there are multiple orderings of reality.

there are 2 basic frameworks of found in human culture--- causality and participation. "causality" is the use of science and rational thought---- spirituality has a tough time existing in this framework.

the other framework is "participation" . this framework places the individual into a world where personal experience supercedes objective classification. this is where spirituality finds its home.

we all have both these frameworks, its merely a matter of choice as to which one is dominate.

please see "magic, science,religion, and the scope of rationality" by stanley tambiah for more on this concept.

best wishes,

surfer

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from marketsurfer:

there needs to be a differentiation between spiritual and religious. religion is untested dogma whereas spiritual is personal and very real to the experincer.

one must understand that there are multiple orderings of reality.

there are 2 basic frameworks of found in human culture--- causality and participation. "causality" is the use of science and rational thought---- spirituality has a tough time existing in this framework.

the other framework is "participation" . this framework places the individual into a world where personal experience supercedes objective classification. this is where spirituality finds its home.

we all have both these frameworks, its merely a matter of choice as to which one is dominate.

please see "magic, science,religion, and the scope of rationality" by stanley tambiah for more on this concept.

best wishes,

surfer

if participation and personal experience are your only criteria for truth all gods\religions are equal and true. the muslim believes just as strongly as you do.

 

[marketsurfer]

Quote from vhehn:

if participation and personal experience are your only criteria for truth all gods\religions are equal and true. the muslim believes just as strongly as you do.

well, obviously, causality can't be applied to spirituality in total.

and partcipation can't be applied to absolute truth in total.

however when combined something magical happens--TRUTH is revealed.

participation when turned into fanaticism becomes dogmatic religion which is self defeating, its certainly not what i am talking about.

i operate, and i hope others operate, within a combination of these frameworks-- in which-- truth is self-evident.

surfer

 

[trainr]

Quote from vhehn:

you can believe whatever you want.

Thank you. I appreciate the freedom.

just don't be surprised if you keep getting shot down when you try to spread your nonsense as truth.

Got it.

If I spread nonsense as truth
I’ll get shot down
And I won’t be surprised.

Anything else?

that is the difference between people like you and me. you want to spread a belief. i want to gain knowledge of the truth based on the evidence.

Ooh, you know me so well.

Thanks again.

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from trainr:

Anything else? Ooh, you know me so well.

[/B]

no i dont. i only know you from what you post here. when you try to tell me that you have figured out that 6 days in the bible equals 14 billion years i am bound to get the impression that you are doing contortions to make the evidence fit your book.