Tower Hill Trading

[Maverick74]

I don't come from money, My only options are too sign the contracts, however, I have never gone from one firm straight to another, my goal was too make enough money to go trade from home. I did that twice and blew out my account each time ending back at the firms again for more backing. Many years ago I traded for Refco and they went after traders as well, but those were guys making a lot of money. I just don't understand what the big deal is, if you are not making any money, the barrier to entry is that much harder for another trading job, and if you are making money live out the contract and move on. Did you guys go after everyone? even the guys that did not make money? Or was it just the guys who did make money? and about what was the threshold?

I read that agreement, there is no desk fee, decent commission, the escrow bank they have sucks which brings your split down to about 55% i think he mentioned. However, At most firms, I have generally signed on for trading futures at a 60/40 split. After my desk fee and commissions, I was getting less than my percentage for sure, even on a good month and trading decent size because the commission adds up so much. Some of you might do a lot better, but a good month for me was 15 to 20k, take out the split, the desk fee and commissions and the deal is never as good as it looks on paper. I don't think the THT deal is anything crazy, plus He can trade futures with his own money, the contract states he cannot trade Equities.


Cheesy

There is NEVER an excuse to reneg on your word, no matter how poor, uneducated, ignorant or desperate you are. In fact, quite the opposite. If you ARE those things, be a man of your word and you will be amazed at the doors that will open for you. Trust is a rare commodity in this world and if people trust you, you will get a shot. The very WORST thing you can do if you are desperate is to give away the one thing you have that most others don't.

Now, on to my next point, get a REAL trading job. Look I hate this defeatist attitude on ET. It wears on me. I tell guys there are firms that will pay 100k to 150k to trade real physical assets and then I get 100 posts that follow saying that's only for really smart people or the chosen few or whatever other excuse people have. Go to school, get an education, work your tail off. Don't join firms to trade 5 shares of stock and say that's all you can do. There is a whole world out there and ET seems to live in this myopic fantasy land of flipping shares of stock at some prop firm. When I got into this business, we didn't have all this free info that is out there now. Shit I was getting on the internet via telnet servers!!!! Now you can practically teach yourself to program, learn Chinese, or learn about the propane market (LPG), record highs btw. You just have to DO it. Yes, it requires some goddamn work but for the love of god people, do it! The laziness in American culture today is sickening. I saw it first hand when I ran our Chicago office. I had guys that were married, who left 150k a year jobs to come trade and they were struggling and they left the office at 3:30!!!!!!! I tried to give the OP some good advice. It seems like he passed. You can lead a horse to the water...

 

[jnbadger]

The barrier to entry for this is so hard,
Cheesy

This is what I will oppose with a passion. This is possibly the easiest business to get into, while possibly being the hardest at which to succeed.

Don't ever say that again.

 

[Maverick74]

This is what I will oppose with a passion. This is possibly the easiest business to get into, while possibly being the hardest at which to succeed.

Don't ever say that again.

Yeah I agree, most prop firms will take anyone with a pulse and if you don't have a pulse, they'll shock you on their dime to get you one and put you in that seat. LOL.

Regarding why we went after traders. We went after guys that left us with debits. We hired a collection firm and went after every EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. We only actually collected on a few but we made sure the Cook County courthouse had a file on them. That will haunt them later in life when they get their shit together and they get a call for a real job and they do a real background check and call them back and say they changed their mind.

 

[Cheesy]

I tend to trade the equities which are moving unusually on any given day, and I would never trade futures, but that is an excellent point. Did not know that.

But why would he do that? He's starting out with 5 shares per trade. He can't afford a futures account.

He cant afford an Equity account either, I think the SEC states that you have to have at least 20 grand to be a pattern day trader. But if he so happens to make money, he can open a futures account and trade it. Or if the contract is terminated he can trade futures as well. At least from what I got out of the contract. I would love to see a dream contract if anyone wants to share. They are all kind of shady in some form from what I have seen and experienced. I guess if Trading firms are banging on your door to come work for them, you can be choosy about the contracts you sign.

Cheesy

 

[jnbadger]

He cant afford an Equity account either, I think the SEC states that you have to have at least 20 grand to be a pattern day trader. But if he so happens to make money, he can open a futures account and trade it. Or if the contract is terminated he can trade futures as well. At least from what I got out of the contract. I would love to see a dream contract if anyone wants to share. They are all kind of shady in some form from what I have seen and experienced. I guess if Trading firms are banging on your door to come work for them, you can be choosy about the contracts you sign.

Cheesy

Here's your dream contract:

I opened an account with echotrade years ago with 10K. They sponsored me for my series 7. Started trading, and after a very very very long while, decided I sucked at manual trading and became automated based on the advice of a colleague. I've been hooked. All the while getting 100% of my profits.

Last August I got a call from the CEO of echotrade saying there was going to be a transition. I said Uh Oh. He said you're going to T3 trading out of New York. No worries, just take some tests and re-register and it will all be cool. (Those tests were surprisingly difficult, btw.) The transition was seemless, and I could not be happier with the service.

I'm not advertising the firm. I am just illustrating a point. Imagine me shouting this from a mountain top: There is better shit out there booooooys!

Edit: Have to disclose that T3 takes 5%. New rules.

But I feel I've already said too much.

 

[Cheesy]

There is NEVER an excuse to reneg on your word, no matter how poor, uneducated, ignorant or desperate you are. In fact, quite the opposite. If you ARE those things, be a man of your word and you will be amazed at the doors that will open for you. Trust is a rare commodity in this world and if people trust you, you will get a shot. The very WORST thing you can do if you are desperate is to give away the one thing you have that most others don't.

Now, on to my next point, get a REAL trading job. Look I hate this defeatist attitude on ET. It wears on me. I tell guys there are firms that will pay 100k to 150k to trade real physical assets and then I get 100 posts that follow saying that's only for really smart people or the chosen few or whatever other excuse people have. Go to school, get an education, work your tail off. Don't join firms to trade 5 shares of stock and say that's all you can do. There is a whole world out there and ET seems to live in this myopic fantasy land of flipping shares of stock at some prop firm. When I got into this business, we didn't have all this free info that is out there now. Shit I was getting on the internet via telnet servers!!!! Now you can practically teach yourself to program, learn Chinese, or learn about the propane market (LPG), record highs btw. You just have to DO it. Yes, it requires some goddamn work but for the love of god people, do it! The laziness in American culture today is sickening. I saw it first hand when I ran our Chicago office. I had guys that were married, who left 150k a year jobs to come trade and they were struggling and they left the office at 3:30!!!!!!! I tried to give the OP some good advice. It seems like he passed. You can lead a horse to the water...

When I first started doing this, I owned a business and most of my clients were traders, well a lot were. And it was all new too me, I had know idea how to get in, and where to start. It never occurred to me that I could apply for a Job at a trading firm and trade physical assets for 150k a year. I personally thought the deals I was getting were great, just to get in to this arena was so exciting. I have made my way and paid my dues and have worked very hard, probably the hardest job I have ever had.

So you have to think about the learning curve and the path I took, at the time I had no clue what a future was, let alone physical assets. And a lot of the people here are starting there, they don't know any of this stuff man, Part of learning is getting out there and doing it, we may not take the same path as you are suggesting, and maybe we could have made better decisions, but people manage to achieve there goals anyways, and I commend the guys that are trying, the market will weed the weak ones out.

I don't think any other path is that much easier. I have sat down next to so many fresh pretty boy Ivy league kids talking a big game with there economics degrees and they are the first ones gone. Also I don't want to be paid to trade something, my goal is was the freedom of lifestyle, I just got back from Europe and I was able to trade from there, I don't have to show up in an office and deal with a boss daily for 150k a year, so everyone has a different idea of the end goal. I basically did the same thing I sold out of my business and jumped into trading and my first year I thought I had made a very bad decision, I lost more money than I care to speak out loud. After thinking about what I was doing, I realized this is a business just like any other I have owned in the past and i sat down, wrote a business plan, stuck to it and my life changed from that.

I have worked with and talked to guys from all walks of life in this industry, its simply never easy.... And you make it sound like its impossible to make it at these smaller firms but I managed to do it. Why are you screaming at me? lol.....

Cheesy

 

[Cheesy]

Here's your dream contract:

I opened an account with echotrade years ago with 10K. They sponsored me for my series 7. Started trading, and after a very very very long while, decided I sucked at manual trading and became automated based on the advice of a colleague. I've been hooked. All the while getting 100% of my profits.

Last August I got a call from the CEO of echotrade saying there was going to be a transition. I said Uh Oh. He said you're going to T3 trading out of New York. No worries, just take some tests and re-register and it will all be cool. (Those tests were surprisingly difficult, btw.) The transition was seemless, and I could not be happier with the service.



I'm not advertising the firm. I am just illustrating a point. Imagine me shouting this from a mountain top: There is better shit out there booooooys!

Edit: Have to disclose that T3 takes 5%. New rules.

But I feel I've already said too much.

But of course you will get a better deal, you put up some seed money as well, that is more like a partnership. Now I wish I had done something like that in the beginning, I opened an account and started trading futures without much guidance at all, I mean I just jumped in, read a few books, got suckered into some seminars and the market took me to the cleaners man.... I had my head over the toilet a few times. I didn't even come to a forum or a board like this to ask questions, hell I didn't even know Elite trader existed then. And I have shared stories with many that started the same way.

I came from a small town, I did not have any exposure to traders or markets until I expanded my business here to chicago, and then I just went nuts, there was so much opportunity for everything everywhere, and I had so much success come to me at a young age, I thought this was gonna be a breeze, and I got my ass, ego, and everything else handed too me or more like shoved right up my ass.

Cheesy

 

[jnbadger]

I personally thought the deals I was getting were great, just to get in to this arena was so exciting. I have made my way and paid my dues and have worked very hard, probably the hardest job I have ever had.

I have worked with and talked to guys from all walks of life in this industry, its simply never easy.... And you make it sound like its impossible to make it at these smaller firms but I managed to do it. Why are you screaming at me? lol.....

Cheesy

No one is screaming at you. I commend you for doing what you have done. It is not impossible. Anyone can enter. Few succeed.

Everyone has their niche. You just need to find it. Night.

 

[Cheesy]

No one is screaming at you. I commend you for doing what you have done. It is not impossible. Anyone can enter. Few succeed.

Everyone has their niche. You just need to find it. Night.

No worries....

 

[jnbadger]

But of course you will get a better deal, you put up some seed money as well, that is more like a partnership. Now I wish I had done something like that in the beginning, I opened an account and started trading futures without much guidance at all, I mean I just jumped in, read a few books, got suckered into some seminars and the market took me to the cleaners man.... I had my head over the toilet a few times. I didn't even come to a forum or a board like this to ask questions, hell I didn't even know Elite trader existed then. And I have shared stories with many that started the same way.

I came from a small town, I did not have any exposure to traders or markets until I expanded my business here to chicago, and then I just went nuts, there was so much opportunity for everything everywhere, and I had so much success come to me at a young age, I thought this was gonna be a breeze, and I got my ass, ego, and everything else handed too me or more like shoved right up my ass.

Cheesy

Dude, I have had enough of your fucking whining. I live in rural western Wisconsin where latency is high and knowledge is low, and i still somehow made a way to win this silly stupid game we play. Some how I found echotrade or it found me. I don't really remember how and I don't care. I am a redneck, but I am an educated redneck who understands the importance of due diligence. If you can't find a firm which suits you, or they can't find you, then maybe it's a sign that you can't hack it as a trader. Grow up now, or don't be a trader.