Tower Hill Trading

jnbadger said:
Dude, I have had enough of your fucking whining. I live in rural western Wisconsin where latency is high and knowledge is low, and i still somehow made a way to win this silly stupid game we play. Some how I found echotrade or it found me. I don't really remember how and I don't care. I am a redneck, but I am an educated redneck who understands the importance of due diligence. If you can't find a firm which suits you, or they can't find you, then maybe it's a sign that you can't hack it as a trader. Grow up now, or don't be a trader.
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Good we have something in common! I am an African American that grew up around rednecks! I remember my friends Mom telling me as a kid in the winter "Be careful out there, its slicker than a frogs ass"

Calm down man, I was just explaining a little bit about myself and where I come from, I was drawing a picture and laughing about the mistakes I have made and how far I have come.. I am not whining..

I have been very happy at the firms I have been at, I have not complained once about that in this thread..
 
Cheesy said:
Good we have something in common! I am an African American that grew up around rednecks! I remember my friends Mom telling me as a kid in the winter "Be careful out there, its slicker than a frogs ass"

Calm down man, I was just explaining a little bit about myself and where I come from, I was drawing a picture and laughing about the mistakes I have made and how far I have come.. I am not whining..

I have been very happy at the firms I have been at, I have not complained once about that in this thread..
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Good. I thought I went too far with that. But like I said, it is the truth.
 
Cheesy said:
Good thing I'm not drinkin tonight! :)

Take it easy dude....

Cheesy
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Good night, dude. I just don't want any young guys get sucked into shit they can't get out of.

I have not "been there, done that", thank God. But I feel many will. It scares me for some reason.
 
jnbadger said:
Good night, dude. I just don't want any young guys get sucked into shit they can't get out of.

I have not "been there, done that", thank God. But I feel many will. It scares me for some reason.
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Yeah, after what Maverick said, I had no clue that level of legal issues was going on, thats crazy. But I hear ya man... It would suck gettin yourself in a bind like that at a young age though.
 
Cheesy said:
When I first started doing this, I owned a business and most of my clients were traders, well a lot were. And it was all new too me, I had know idea how to get in, and where to start. It never occurred to me that I could apply for a Job at a trading firm and trade physical assets for 150k a year. I personally thought the deals I was getting were great, just to get in to this arena was so exciting. I have made my way and paid my dues and have worked very hard, probably the hardest job I have ever had.

So you have to think about the learning curve and the path I took, at the time I had no clue what a future was, let alone physical assets. And a lot of the people here are starting there, they don't know any of this stuff man, Part of learning is getting out there and doing it, we may not take the same path as you are suggesting, and maybe we could have made better decisions, but people manage to achieve there goals anyways, and I commend the guys that are trying, the market will weed the weak ones out.

I don't think any other path is that much easier. I have sat down next to so many fresh pretty boy Ivy league kids talking a big game with there economics degrees and they are the first ones gone. Also I don't want to be paid to trade something, my goal is was the freedom of lifestyle, I just got back from Europe and I was able to trade from there, I don't have to show up in an office and deal with a boss daily for 150k a year, so everyone has a different idea of the end goal. I basically did the same thing I sold out of my business and jumped into trading and my first year I thought I had made a very bad decision, I lost more money than I care to speak out loud. After thinking about what I was doing, I realized this is a business just like any other I have owned in the past and i sat down, wrote a business plan, stuck to it and my life changed from that.

I have worked with and talked to guys from all walks of life in this industry, its simply never easy.... And you make it sound like its impossible to make it at these smaller firms but I managed to do it. Why are you screaming at me? lol.....

Cheesy
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Still don't think you get it, and this response of "I just want to work for myself" which gets repeated many times on this forum, demonstrates that. Do you know how successful people start their own businesses? They get a job in some industry, someone pays them to do some task. They get good at it, they move up, get good at that, move up, get even better and then at some point they say, "I bet I could do this on my own". And so they go out and start their own company. I would venture to guess that 95% of successful restaurant owners "worked" in a restaurant before they opened their own. Most successful coaches in any sport most likely actually "played" the sport before they became a coach. It's called learning your craft.

It's no different in trading. The reason guys take a trading job where they get "paid" by someone else is to actually "learn" about the world of trading. And not just stocks but the millions of things out there that you didn't even knew existed that trade. Then once they have a certain amount of skill, they leave and start their own funds, go to a prop firm perhaps where they have more "freedom" or many simply just trade on their own. When I hear a young guy (and I assume you are young) make comments or allude to the idea of "working for the man" as if you have some sort of choice, it demonstrates a certain lack of maturity. Especially at a young age.

Now when I got into this business many years ago, you could actually work at an equity firm and get actual training. There were financial incentives for that to happen. So you could actually do what you are attempting to do. But the problem is today, because of the commission structure, it's not feasible. And therefore most these shops simply provide a chair, computer and a few flat screens and wish you luck. That my friend is a recipe for failure. Are there outliers? Sure there are. But I always bet with the odds.
 
Aren't the outliers what these firm depend on? Bring in fifty new traders with ridiculous risk management parameters, and one makes it and the firm gets a huge percentage of his profits for a few years?

I'm sure there are a select few who are happy there, and I don't want to bad mouth a firm. But my gut tells me there are better options out there.
 
jnbadger said:
Aren't the outliers what these firm depend on? Bring in fifty new traders with ridiculous risk management parameters, and one makes it and the firm gets a huge percentage of his profits for a few years?

I'm sure there are a select few who are happy there, and I don't want to bad mouth a firm. But my gut tells me there are better options out there.
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The deposit firms could care less about outliers. They want commissions. Most firms get zero p&l from the trader so if a trader makes makes money, good for him. The firm is indifferent.
 
Maverick74 said:
Still don't think you get it, and this response of "I just want to work for myself" which gets repeated many times on this forum, demonstrates that. Do you know how successful people start their own businesses? They get a job in some industry, someone pays them to do some task. They get good at it, they move up, get good at that, move up, get even better and then at some point they say, "I bet I could do this on my own". And so they go out and start their own company. I would venture to guess that 95% of successful restaurant owners "worked" in a restaurant before they opened their own. Most successful coaches in any sport most likely actually "played" the sport before they became a coach. It's called learning your craft.

It's no different in trading. The reason guys take a trading job where they get "paid" by someone else is to actually "learn" about the world of trading. And not just stocks but the millions of things out there that you didn't even knew existed that trade. Then once they have a certain amount of skill, they leave and start their own funds, go to a prop firm perhaps where they have more "freedom" or many simply just trade on their own. When I hear a young guy (and I assume you are young) make comments or allude to the idea of "working for the man" as if you have some sort of choice, it demonstrates a certain lack of maturity. Especially at a young age.

Now when I got into this business many years ago, you could actually work at an equity firm and get actual training. There were financial incentives for that to happen. So you could actually do what you are attempting to do. But the problem is today, because of the commission structure, it's not feasible. And therefore most these shops simply provide a chair, computer and a few flat screens and wish you luck. That my friend is a recipe for failure. Are there outliers? Sure there are. But I always bet with the odds.
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That was me, My first business at the age of 20 was actually a restaurant, I owned an ice cream store/sandwich shop. Never worked in a restaurant in my life. Failed miserably. I admit I have not taken the right paths and I was ambitious with a lack of maturity. But I have done well for myself, I am 42 with teenagers and I look back on my life and think about the fact that I should of got a degree in business as opposed to Digital Electronics. I get what you are saying and appreciate your candor, but that still does not change the fact that I want to work for myself and always have and did what I felt was necessary to get there. Did I do it the way I should have or the "Smart" way, absolutely not, but I do not have any regrets...

Cheesy
 
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