Now we understand why you continually call TST a scam when you couldn't pass the combine.
Topsteptrader
- Thread starter deaddog
- Start date
Now we understand why you continually call TST a scam when you couldn't pass the combine.
Yes, after the first 10 days, you can modify the lot size until the cushion has steady gains in order to increase the probability that you will have longevity in the live account.
In your earlier example, you cited that a trader only needs to trade with HALF the risk in the live account as the combine, then your P&L will come to $4,500, provided that you do not trade more than the starting 3 lots. I think you provided a reasonable and valid example of a scenario that is realistic.
Just as you made a mathematical approach to the combine, one also has to make a mathematical approach to the live account.
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The "piker broker margin" is simply an example to compare what a trader would need to open his/her OWN retail account, since one of the main attacks against the TST model is "why don't you just open your own account?"
So the "real" or "true" account size is a valid comparison, since that is what a trader would require as an alternative to getting a backed account with TST.
You're right, the margins posted by the backer are most likely different than what an individual needs to place with the futures firm, since the backer's margin is calculated in the aggregate, not per individual trader. However, like we've discussed before, what the backer has to place is immaterial to the trader, since the trader doesn't use any of his/her own maintenance margin.
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First, an obvious point. We can argue until the cows come home, but here is the very best argument:
Until someone comes here and shows the fat paychecks, everything is rhetorical from the TST side.
The whole idea of going with TST is getting the big trading account.
But guess what? EVERYBODY has to scale up. So you might as well scale up your own account.
Edit: I see Scalper Joe's account calculation, the difference doesn't really matter, depends on the max. car size and the traded instrument. What matters is that the real account is way below 10K, nothing close to the imagined 150K.
* Knowing what others are making is good from marketing standpoint, and that is why TST has even started to promote emails showcasing the results of some funded traders as they start their live accounts. The questions are the same: 1. Can I pass the combine? 2. Can I make enough cushion in the live account to keep trading?
* It's true that "everybody" has to scale up, however the MAIN difference is with your own account you need to put up the maintenance margin, whereas with TST you do not.
* Yes, the "real account" is well below 10k and nobody can dispute that. However, you are only looking at the opening value of the "real account" and not the potential value.
At the end of the day, it's all about probabilities. There will always be a percentage of those who "blow up" their live accounts and get sent back to the combine, but that's no different than the percentages who "blow up" their own live retail accounts!
The probability of maintaining profits while trading in a structured environment where you have zero risk of capital has greater odds than going it at your own.
Yes, they have changed the rules constantly, however as we've seen the rules have usually changed for the better. The continuous combine is probably one of the better rule changes in my opinion.
Compare this with the recent rule changes of the airline frequent flyer programs, such as with United and Delta, where your miles are now calculated on dollars spent vs. distance flown. It's a landmark change and drastically reduces the ability to earn mileage on flights unless you're buying premium fares.
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People, seriously. I am trying to participate less in this thread (I know I am failing) but when somebody says such a stupid thing I just have to speak up and educate.
The idea of "continuous combine" is a genius money maker and a huge oxymoron. Just imagine, what does it do? It removes the time element from the combine, the only thing that makes one combine comparable to another. Hey I can make a million dollar, it just takes 20 years to do it, but who cares, as long as we remove the per year, per month or per 10 days time element.
The whole NFL Combine (what the TST Combine takes its name from) is based on one simple principle, everyone takes the same test, thus the performances are comparable immediately. End of story.
Now it is also a genius moneymaker because it keeps hopeless recruits in the combine for perpetuity, and of course it is for a continuous fee. So it generates good money for TST, without extra risk, because those bad traders will be filtered out later by the FTP or the cushion building phase. Probably the CC is the reason they have so many new traders passing the combine. (if not, what is the point of having it? Oh yes, I almost forgot, making extra profits)
As we agreed with Joe, the Combine is just the first and rather irrelevant test in the series of tests before you can take the fat paycheck. If it takes five continuous combines to reach the profit goal, little Jimmie, you are probably not cut out for it...
Joe used the airline frequent flier analogy, and it is perfect. The continuous combine is rather dollar spent vs. profit made.
The idea of "continuous combine" is a genius money maker and a huge oxymoron. Just imagine, what does it do? It removes the time element from the combine, the only thing that makes one combine comparable to another. Hey I can make a million dollar, it just takes 20 years to do it, but who cares, as long as we remove the per year, per month or per 10 days time element.
The whole NFL Combine (what the TST Combine takes its name from) is based on one simple principle, everyone takes the same test, thus the performances are comparable immediately. End of story.
Now it is also a genius moneymaker because it keeps hopeless recruits in the combine for perpetuity, and of course it is for a continuous fee. So it generates good money for TST, without extra risk, because those bad traders will be filtered out later by the FTP or the cushion building phase. Probably the CC is the reason they have so many new traders passing the combine. (if not, what is the point of having it? Oh yes, I almost forgot, making extra profits)
As we agreed with Joe, the Combine is just the first and rather irrelevant test in the series of tests before you can take the fat paycheck. If it takes five continuous combines to reach the profit goal, little Jimmie, you are probably not cut out for it...
Joe used the airline frequent flier analogy, and it is perfect. The continuous combine is rather dollar spent vs. profit made.
Ok I will bite. If a company is truly interested in backing you as a trader why are you now allowed to pay $100 and get mulligans to restart your combine if this whole scheme is not about nickel and diming dreamers ?
Yes position sizing is always mission critical. It keeps risk in check and also preserves your emotional capital. Traders should always be thinking what do i stand to lose and what will I do to cope with losing trades - answer size down regroup recoup when the natural reaction can be to carry on and 'make it back'. Ask yourself how many times you have actually traded well when you had the 'make it back' internal dialogue. In addition when you haven't traded well to power down and take a small losing day is tough but necessary.
Hey Joe
I think we have all beaten this to death now, even I am getting tired with it and I am quite persistent. Suffice to say I don't think its a great comparison, the biggie is accountability. i just know a trader trading his own smaller account with no accountability will exhibit different behaviour compared to trading in a transparent, accountable, managed environment. The former will reload/break rules and continually tell themselves 'ok this time I will follow my rules', 'it's ok my rules were wrong, I will change them and stick to them this time' etc etc. Of course we are not talking about battle hardened 5-10+ year veterans with discipline of rock, these people are rare but do exist and are likely to do well in any environment.
This is one of the great things about TST imo. It shows newbie traders that their are people out there who can trade profitably. After years of being beaten up by the markets it's easy to get locked into the mindset that nobody is profitable and everything is a scam.
I just love the threads where 10,000+ keyboard jockeys challenge each other to combines and both of them blow up and cite various reasons. Note how their behaviour doesnt alter. lol.