Quote from Lucias:
in case it was lost..
Michael... I tell you what I'll do, I'll take you up on the free offer but it has to be for the 2k risk limit per day combine but I'll only take it when Ninjatrader is ready. You can post my dollar results too but not my trades. 10 day is fine.
I do agree with GMST that its setup as a scheme to generate combine fees.
Mav or anyone else who is saying you can't set this up to generate money.. sure you can.
Just look at a distribution graph to understand this...
Losers
Big Losers
Make a mistake/hit loss limit
Small Losers
Winners that break a rule/make mistake
=> $$$ PROFIT FROM ALL ABOVE
Winners
Big winners
Solid Winners
=> Break even on these "trades"
Huge Winners (3 std dev)
=> Small payout
You can adjust the difficulty, add silly rules (like they have), or what you have. Now at end of month, you just tally up your profits and fund enough traders from your combine profits. Too many pass? No problem. You've enough silly rules to find something wrong with most of them.. sit down.. have a pow wow talk about how they need to do better but show promise.. free combine. Of course then there are the upsales... room.. squak.. membership fees. etc
Why make a lot of rules for trader getting his refund? If combine fees aren't the revenue generation method then why even charge it? Mav, that's why I made a point to show that you don't get refunded even if profitable -- they added more strings so they can keep your money. It is a matter of principle and shows what the true nature of operation is.
Why not make it so that the trader has to trade a least 80% of days out of 3 months time? Make it free. How many will trade 80% of days for 3 months? You don't need to charge a combine fee to find serious traders.
I think its a great business for the combine owners.. Even in the "legit" form its a good business. and then if you are really sophisticated you can run data mining operatoins on the traders silently in the background... gather unique quant data for automating any profitable traders you find... No need to tell about the owners.. if one happens to be phd quant.
Lucias/gmst/critics- you guys are hard to please. Sorry we are not negotiating the terms. It is a reasonable fair offer for both parties. You show us you can produce. We will stake you.
A deposit for the Combine is required or anyone who entered the program would not take it seriously and instead would do whatever they wanted. That wastes everyone's time. And yes, Combines are costly to set up, manage and evaluate.
The rules to receive your money deposit back, which you call silly are as follows:
Deposit will be refunded once all Combine trading days (10 or 20 days) have been completed, if the following requirements have been met:
1. Daily loss limit has not been hit or exceeded (this is basically don't lose $1,000 in a day. Hell, stop at $999 and you're good.)
2. Overall Winning Day % of 50 or greater (so in 10 trading days (which is the Combine length I proposed to the critical ET member) we are ONLY asking that the account be in the positive for 5 out of 10 of them. Whether that is $1 or $10k. Again you are good if you do this)
3. Each product traded has a Trading Average greater than zero ($0) (If you want to trade a bunch of products you better make money in them or why trade them? we recommend trading less markets, preferably one, and make sure you make at least $1 and again you are good)
4. Each product traded has met 2 out of 3 performance requirements, which are as follows:
- Overall Average Win greater than Overall Average Loss (averaging more in your winners than losers is something a trader should be looking to do, keeps the account growing)
- Overall Average Win Duration greater than Overall Average Loss Duration (we've all heard cut your losers let your winners ride. Well that saying isn't just a saying because it is fun to say.. it makes sense)
- Total Win % of 45 or greater (how low should this be? this is a fair standard you should set for yourself.. in our opinion of course)
(now, the above are basic trading mechanics. We only want to see 2 of the 3 met)
You can see a Trade Report of a 10-Day Combine that has met ALL (3 out of 3 performance requirements, which are listed directly above) here:
http://www.topsteptrader.com/ViewSoftwareTutorial/t4 -- Keep in mind, to meet the Combine objective and deposit refund requirements, ONLY 2 out 3 of the performance requirements have to be met.
Now, if our standard evaluation criteria for meeting the Combine objective or refund/rollover requirements as mentioned above does not work for you WE WILL listen to your evaluation proposal if it falls within the guidelines here:
http://www.topsteptrader.com/customevaluation
In conclusion, if all of this does not work we are clearly at a point that you as a trader are not a fit for what we are looking for and it is best we both move on. Fair enough?
mp
