No... Your risk is the 2k daily loss limit which you stated above... 4k>2k so it isn't much more than that. After they lose 2k you shut them down for the day the way any prop would!
TopstepTrader and Patak Trading Partners- Any and all questions answered here
- Thread starter MichaelPatak
- Start date
- Status
No... Your risk is the 2k daily loss limit which you stated above... 4k>2k so it isn't much more than that. After they lose 2k you shut them down for the day the way any prop would!
ScalperJoe- If they want to go with either of the clearing firms we know they would receive FREE access to the Squawk radio. Have them email scouting@topsteptrader.com and mention that they are interested in opening a personal account with either of our clearing firms, someone on our end will help them out.
If they do go with our clearing firm it will allow us to pull their trades each day and update their trader profile and most importantly their trade reports with that days trading activity.. We have traders that are funding their own personal accounts that are also members that use all the services we have. (Which btw we have a great breaking news service in realtime. It's cheaper than ransquawk since it comes when the membership and it is a hell of a lot faster. There are perks being on the trading floor, lots of info on wall boards makes for a good audio feed all day while you are trading and in our TST Squawk radio w/ chat room). These traders that use our service and are members also get the benefits of a trading coach session each month to discuss their PERSONAL trading. This is like Derek Jeter having a batting coach (which he does and works with daily). We want traders to have this whether PTP is funding you or you are on your own.
mp
Mav,
All the math I've shared makes sense to others. All the numbers come from either Mr. Patak, who has been generous to answer all my questions, or the website itself.
Whether or not the combine fee is refunded isn't relevant.. its at risk. It can be at risk in the market or in the combine.
The 100k combine is a better bet because the fee increases at a linear ratio while the total risk increase is geometric. Even the 100k account is only equivalent to coming up with 2.2k risk capital.
I did my analysis on the lowest tier account. At the lowest tier, one is working 1 month and risking $175 to essentially make $500. Not a good deal for me but others can disagree.
Mav, I get what you're saying about taking multiple combines but that's a lot of work. You're also assuming you pass on the first try. It might take 4x to pass. No guarantee that those 4x won't be losing months either. If it takes just 4x to pass (which I think is pretty good) you'd pay in about as much as they'd give you on the live session.
All the math I've shared makes sense to others. All the numbers come from either Mr. Patak, who has been generous to answer all my questions, or the website itself.
Whether or not the combine fee is refunded isn't relevant.. its at risk. It can be at risk in the market or in the combine.
The 100k combine is a better bet because the fee increases at a linear ratio while the total risk increase is geometric. Even the 100k account is only equivalent to coming up with 2.2k risk capital.
I did my analysis on the lowest tier account. At the lowest tier, one is working 1 month and risking $175 to essentially make $500. Not a good deal for me but others can disagree.
Mav, I get what you're saying about taking multiple combines but that's a lot of work. You're also assuming you pass on the first try. It might take 4x to pass. No guarantee that those 4x won't be losing months either. If it takes just 4x to pass (which I think is pretty good) you'd pay in about as much as they'd give you on the live session.
You can't earn money as a trader with this structure...
Let's say you have a bad run and you get booted back to Combine... then you have a good run in VIRTUAL money which should have put you back into profit... Then you go live and your streak ends and you lose REAL money again...! You go back to Combine... Your psychology is toast by now.... You're done...!
Quote from CoolTraderDude:
Sure... But you're Patak Trading Partners, your name is in the firms's name so you're the one who set it up.
Don't try to pass it off as PTP who is your boss who's making you do it.
You don't know if he is the owner or not. He has specifically said that they are refusing to disclose who the owners of Patak or TopStep are. I assume this is so if you have an issue that might involve any legal action you will not know who to sue. Very clever.
Michael, you seem to be quick to answer all questions that are easy ones that also help you sell. But you refuse to answer these questions, including why you feel the need to have such secrecy. Can you name another financial firm that is asking you to send them money and trust that they will perform but refuses to tell you who they are??
Again....(third time posting same questions without an answer). If people think these questions are irrelevant please let me know and I will stop asking them. If you think they are relevant please ask as well.
1. Who owns TopStepTrader? If you will not disclose their names please state why there is such secrecy.
2. Why do you hold yourself out as a CME Member Firm when the rules say you are not allowed to?
3. I assumed that you marked up trades because many people have stated that they can get better rates at Interactive Brokers....I guess I shouldn't have assumed. Can you please post a pdf of your billing from your clearing firm so we can see that there are no mark-ups. I definitely understand you are under no obligation to do this because potential traders wouldn't fall under the requirement that you need to if asked.
Very good points... You're right... Patak might not be the owner or one of the owners despite the fact that he put up his name. He might be a front for someone else...
Everything else is spot on...
Traderchi128... Thanks for the great post. I agree with about 95% of it. I to started small only after funding myself big and blowing that out. It was when I started small and got another job at night did I start leaning and build patience and discipline.. it takes A LOT of time..
After for those that are not putting up the money it is not about capitalization as we have open some us and got the same results. IT is mental .. a lot of people have talent but mentally they are like you said mind F'd this is what happens to some when they just started or they have been trading and want to make more but psychologically can't get over the hump then get frustrated and smoke their account.. That is one of the reason we push with all our might that discipline and patience is key..
Lastly as for the 10 day and 20 day.. We have these because we want traders to work on things every 10 days.. Trading psychologist say that bad habits can be broken every month or so.. SO if a trader has a bad habit we tell them to go to the 20 day and work this out. But they must stay disciplined and focus on working their issue out to keep it form keeping you moving forward and break the bad habit. The 10 day are for those that fine tune their trading performance or mechanics. Ultimately if someone is ready RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOW, they will surface in a 10 day or 20 day Combine.
As for bouncing back and forth from Combine to Live... we are constantly working with that trader to get them better. Some occasions we may tell them to talk to a Trading psychologist, Some occasion we work with them on one area they struggle in but ultimately it is up to them to get over this... much like an athlete. Though getting them back on SIM and holding them accountable helps makes sim closer to real and allows them to feel the effects of being wrong.
Either way good post and I do think you see what we are doing from a veteran trader perceptive..
mp
Say you lose 5k in the combine. You go back to sim for a month. Do well, say you make 5k on the sim. When you go live again, you basically made back that 5k anyway because they wipe it clean. The net effect is the same. Everytime you go back to the combine you immediately back all your losses no matter what! If your psyche is that sensitive, trading is not for you. That's why they call this a sport bud.
Director of Scouting for TST...
What is your position at Patak Trading...?
He probably won't answer this...
Sure... That's a succesful trading model...! Lose real money and make it up with simulator money...!
I don't think that any business that actually makes its money trading would do this...
- Status