Thank you. I really appreciate you taking the time and effort to help us out. Let me study it carefully.
I will try it out on my stocks and see how it works.
Regards,
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To all thee would-be traders out there....
- Thread starter truth101
- Start date
I will try it out on my stocks and see how it works.
Regards,
Thank you for your appreciation.
No, that would be ill-advised.
All indicators are lagging by virtual of the math. The only use I have found for indicators is like I said as training wheels to BEGIN to see the ever repeating cycle of market operation.
However, without personally taking on the effort to begin purposeful learning via MADA, that process will get short-circuited.
Trying to trade a new concept is adding an unnecessary demon of doubt that will just lead to trauma.
Recoverable but extremely counter-productive.
Reach for understanding first, making money is a by-product.
........without the usual interruption by those......
Even though most of the above sounds right, the issue is not to confuse the sound with the correct meaning (which imho is somewhat missing) of what should follow from the each postulate 
===IF you think you are gonna make a million dollars during your first 1 years trading, then quit while you're ahead.===
First of, it's not the business for quitters, regardless of their original expectations and the best intentions of advisers... so do not quit.
Also, 1 million dollars in first year is not something unheard of, much depends on the original amount of the deposit (it can be 900k), or the phase of the market - it can extremely bullish, stupidity of the newbie - he can sit in extremely risky positions not even knowing about it, and he can be very lucky.. yes lucky... there is bad luck and good luck , and good luck may run out well after the first million is made
So let's rephrase postulate #1: Regardless of how much money one expected to make or to loose in the first year, regardless how much one actually lost or made in the first year , one have to keep in mind that in the first year in the market nobody has a working method...and that what matters ! So neither one's expectations nor one's results at the beginning are any indications of what lies ahead for one.
===IF you think you think all those "gurus" lifestyles are from trading alone, then quit while you're ahead.===
One just should not confuse "gurus" with gurus.
Gurus practically not available to the newbie, and even if their would he can not really learn from them , since they would not teach. And their lifestyle is from trading only, but they not necessarily sailing yachts (what for?)
====IF you think this is easy skill to learn, then quit while you're ahead.====
It is an easy skill to learn.
But the term leaning usually suggests that somebody is teaching.. That the problem - all teachers here can not trade themselves. The knowledge here, unlike other fields of human enterprise, is generally not transferable in trading. So not only no one to learn from, but all experiments are made on one's own ass....Can you imaging learning heart surgery on your own heart? Exactly ! One would be dead soon. Trader's learn on their own open wallet. And many are killing themselves financially in the process...
===IF you don't have the time to dedicate, and i mean really dedicate,then quit while you're ahead.===
True , but what we are talking about? Year, two, ten, twenty? Life?
Probably life...
===IF you have any financial responsibility during the first couple years of the start of trading.===
the minimum responsibility is at least to feed oneself ... he-he. Some one should feed you... rich daddy, sugar mama?
====IF you think there is a "holy grail strategy", then quit while you're ahead.===
there is a holy grail strategy
===You'll have to dedicate much more time in the beginning and then as you improve you'll notice you don't need to really do much except manage trades===
baloney
and what is beginning (its a very relative term)
trading is a continues process...unfortunately or fortunately its much more than managing the trades, its managing the method (for those few who has it ),making sure its applied properly to current situation
===If you think TA doesn't work then leave my fucking thread now because you are an idiot===
Of course it does not work, that's why all TA analyst are miserable as traders... An it should not work... its just a medium upon which one builds a method. Does wind work? nope.. One need a sail or a windmill to harness its energy. Is wind the only medium from which energy can be utilized? nope, there are many others, but one needs to have a method to utilize the energy of the particular medium be it an oil, or atom... same way in trading/investing. TA can be used, FA can be used, QA can be used but only with proper methods. On its own there are useless... Therefore one should not confuse analysis with method !
===Stare at naked chart for a few months and you'll start to see things differently.===
Reminds me an old Russian anecdote, when someone asks a guys what he is thinking about when he stares at the brick
He answers: I think about the women?
-Why?
- I always think about them....
So just to stare is not enough unfortunately..., some specific ideas have to be born in the heard which not necessarily will, regardless on what and how long one is staring at
===IF you think you are gonna make a million dollars during your first 1 years trading, then quit while you're ahead.===
First of, it's not the business for quitters, regardless of their original expectations and the best intentions of advisers
... so do not quit.Also, 1 million dollars in first year is not something unheard of, much depends on the original amount of the deposit (it can be 900k)
, or the phase of the market - it can extremely bullish, stupidity of the newbie - he can sit in extremely risky positions not even knowing about it, and he can be very lucky.. yes lucky... there is bad luck and good luck , and good luck may run out well after the first million is made So let's rephrase postulate #1: Regardless of how much money one expected to make or to loose in the first year, regardless how much one actually lost or made in the first year
, one have to keep in mind that in the first year in the market nobody has a working method...and that what matters ! So neither one's expectations nor one's results at the beginning are any indications of what lies ahead for one.===IF you think you think all those "gurus" lifestyles are from trading alone, then quit while you're ahead.===
One just should not confuse "gurus" with gurus.
Gurus practically not available to the newbie, and even if their would he can not really learn from them , since they would not teach. And their lifestyle is from trading only, but they not necessarily sailing yachts (what for?)
====IF you think this is easy skill to learn, then quit while you're ahead.====
It is an easy skill to learn.
But the term leaning usually suggests that somebody is teaching.. That the problem - all teachers here can not trade themselves. The knowledge here, unlike other fields of human enterprise, is generally not transferable in trading. So not only no one to learn from, but all experiments are made on one's own ass....Can you imaging learning heart surgery on your own heart? Exactly ! One would be dead soon. Trader's learn on their own open wallet.
And many are killing themselves financially in the process...===IF you don't have the time to dedicate, and i mean really dedicate,then quit while you're ahead.===
True , but what we are talking about? Year, two, ten, twenty? Life?
Probably life...
===IF you have any financial responsibility during the first couple years of the start of trading.===
the minimum responsibility is at least to feed oneself ... he-he. Some one should feed you... rich daddy, sugar mama?
====IF you think there is a "holy grail strategy", then quit while you're ahead.===
there is a holy grail strategy
===You'll have to dedicate much more time in the beginning and then as you improve you'll notice you don't need to really do much except manage trades===
baloney
and what is beginning (its a very relative term)
trading is a continues process...unfortunately or fortunately its much more than managing the trades, its managing the method (for those few who has it ),making sure its applied properly to current situation
===If you think TA doesn't work then leave my fucking thread now because you are an idiot===
Of course it does not work, that's why all TA analyst are miserable as traders... An it should not work... its just a medium upon which one builds a method. Does wind work? nope.. One need a sail or a windmill to harness its energy. Is wind the only medium from which energy can be utilized? nope, there are many others, but one needs to have a method to utilize the energy of the particular medium be it an oil, or atom... same way in trading/investing. TA can be used, FA can be used, QA can be used but only with proper methods. On its own there are useless... Therefore one should not confuse analysis with method !
===Stare at naked chart for a few months and you'll start to see things differently.===
Reminds me an old Russian anecdote, when someone asks a guys what he is thinking about when he stares at the brick
He answers: I think about the women?
-Why?
- I always think about them....
So just to stare is not enough unfortunately...
, some specific ideas have to be born in the heard which not necessarily will, regardless on what and how long one is staring at
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Great comment.
An open inquisitive mind works like a sail, harnessing the power of ideas to one's benefit.
A close-mind benefits no one especially the one who possesses it.
The thing about telling the truth is that know one likes to hear it....
When i say all these bad things people can't believe it, like OMG so negative. Seriously? Is called reality of the market and what it takes to be successful. This tread isn't to start a flaming war.
I should have made myself a little bit more clear. This post was originally for the amateurs, the guys that don't really know what they are getting into. And hopefully someone can benefit from my experience. This is also form of mental catharsis for me. It's obvious that most of you are getting very offended and taking defensive stands against what im saying. I may have came on a little too strong, but don't take personally it's just how i talk... Like i said im mainly talking about s&p day trading, but you can also apply it to short swing trading.
Im not here to completely teach you TA, you have to do the work yourself. Besides even if did break it all down, you wouldn't "see it". "seeing it" takes a tremendous amount of screen time during intra-day action, which is why you need to stare at a chart for as long as it takes until you perceive the market differently. This is like being in a high school math class, when you have those light bulb moments and everything clicks.
Fundamentals are inferior to TA at the end of day - because what moves markets is volume and price. You have to understand that the news is a catalyst for the informed "Big Boy" traders to move the market in their favor. After all the accumulation or distribution is done, we can finally move out of a range, because of the offsetting of volume that has occurred. I doubt anyone here has deeper pockets than Goldman, so don't fight them rather join them.
For people that think they are too smart for TA, or that TA is somehow not a good enough reason to trade, then you don't understand anything about TA. TA is so counter-intuitive because it's very elementary in it's nature. People want explanations of why the market did this or that, but it's better to see learn HOW not why. You can theorize all day after you can see the how. TA isn't going to tell you with absolute certainty that the market is going up, in-fact nothing will be able to guarantee what will occur in the future, but it will give you a good idea. therefore allowing you to ANTICIPATE the next move. This will allow you to make an educated BET on which way it may go. By the way, the people that say trading is not gambling are wrong - we are clearly gamblers, albeit we use tactics to bet SMART. People saying TA doesn't help long term. Are you joking? If you think TA is for lower time frames only - NEWS FLASH the time frames all exhibit the same behavior.
Making 1 mil in your first year of trading, with no trading experience is almost impossible - sure you might get lucky. Hell, there are experienced traders out there that probably make millions on a good volatile day. If the account is large enough there is no profit cap. But like all those .com fellas trading a bubble in 2000 - all lost what they made after the bust. If you don't know how you made the money, you will more than likely give it right back.
The "gurus" make money from their countless subs. They may be able to trade, but they make easy money collecting from suckers. The chat rooms and systems can be in the hundreds or thousands of dollars, and the chat rooms are paid monthly. Yeah, those "gurus" are making bank. End of story.
TA is only one piece of the puzzle. There are many aspects of trading that you will have to figure out for yourself - but If i had to pick the top 3 skills:
1) chart reading
2) money management = cutting losses swiftly (mostly underrated by newbies)
3)timing of entry/exits (also underrated and rarely spoken of, especially the exit where the money is made)
TA doesn't work for some people because they don't understand how to apply it effectively. TA is developing the ability to really read a chart. To be able to see repeatable price action patterns and play them effectively. This is why i say stare at a chart, 3 months , 6 months, 1 year or how ever long it takes for you to see things differently, to see structure, accumulation, distribution ,etc. It's all a matter of perspective. People asks whats the best time frame to trade - their isn't one. Ill say this though, tick charts are better than time charts intra-day.
Better to start fresh and learn organically, than to latch on to someones method because they showed you 50k pnl on one trade.
~follow the price action...
When i say all these bad things people can't believe it, like OMG so negative. Seriously? Is called reality of the market and what it takes to be successful. This tread isn't to start a flaming war.
I should have made myself a little bit more clear. This post was originally for the amateurs, the guys that don't really know what they are getting into. And hopefully someone can benefit from my experience. This is also form of mental catharsis for me. It's obvious that most of you are getting very offended and taking defensive stands against what im saying. I may have came on a little too strong, but don't take personally it's just how i talk... Like i said im mainly talking about s&p day trading, but you can also apply it to short swing trading.
Im not here to completely teach you TA, you have to do the work yourself. Besides even if did break it all down, you wouldn't "see it". "seeing it" takes a tremendous amount of screen time during intra-day action, which is why you need to stare at a chart for as long as it takes until you perceive the market differently. This is like being in a high school math class, when you have those light bulb moments and everything clicks.
Fundamentals are inferior to TA at the end of day - because what moves markets is volume and price. You have to understand that the news is a catalyst for the informed "Big Boy" traders to move the market in their favor. After all the accumulation or distribution is done, we can finally move out of a range, because of the offsetting of volume that has occurred. I doubt anyone here has deeper pockets than Goldman, so don't fight them rather join them.
For people that think they are too smart for TA, or that TA is somehow not a good enough reason to trade, then you don't understand anything about TA. TA is so counter-intuitive because it's very elementary in it's nature. People want explanations of why the market did this or that, but it's better to see learn HOW not why. You can theorize all day after you can see the how. TA isn't going to tell you with absolute certainty that the market is going up, in-fact nothing will be able to guarantee what will occur in the future, but it will give you a good idea. therefore allowing you to ANTICIPATE the next move. This will allow you to make an educated BET on which way it may go. By the way, the people that say trading is not gambling are wrong - we are clearly gamblers, albeit we use tactics to bet SMART. People saying TA doesn't help long term. Are you joking? If you think TA is for lower time frames only - NEWS FLASH the time frames all exhibit the same behavior.
Making 1 mil in your first year of trading, with no trading experience is almost impossible - sure you might get lucky. Hell, there are experienced traders out there that probably make millions on a good volatile day. If the account is large enough there is no profit cap. But like all those .com fellas trading a bubble in 2000 - all lost what they made after the bust. If you don't know how you made the money, you will more than likely give it right back.
The "gurus" make money from their countless subs. They may be able to trade, but they make easy money collecting from suckers. The chat rooms and systems can be in the hundreds or thousands of dollars, and the chat rooms are paid monthly. Yeah, those "gurus" are making bank. End of story.
TA is only one piece of the puzzle. There are many aspects of trading that you will have to figure out for yourself - but If i had to pick the top 3 skills:
1) chart reading
2) money management = cutting losses swiftly (mostly underrated by newbies)
3)timing of entry/exits (also underrated and rarely spoken of, especially the exit where the money is made)
TA doesn't work for some people because they don't understand how to apply it effectively. TA is developing the ability to really read a chart. To be able to see repeatable price action patterns and play them effectively. This is why i say stare at a chart, 3 months , 6 months, 1 year or how ever long it takes for you to see things differently, to see structure, accumulation, distribution ,etc. It's all a matter of perspective. People asks whats the best time frame to trade - their isn't one. Ill say this though, tick charts are better than time charts intra-day.
Better to start fresh and learn organically, than to latch on to someones method because they showed you 50k pnl on one trade.
~follow the price action...
It's amazing how much debate and words go into something, or a post,
But to sum it up...I would say successful trading...is a Hybrid approach that culminates bits and pieces of random wisdoms and data and ways,
It Has to be, because nothing in the market is linear or simple or clear-cut. It's truly a skill and art
for each new trading day/chart,
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who cares about them ?
most of the people unable to head the advice, and those few ones who do - really do need it: they will figure out everything themselves
on top of that, by promising the quick riches to the public industry doing good not only for itself, but for others who feed from the constant supply of money brought to the market by the unsuspecting public
it is not smart to explain to the public that not only it does not know what it is doing, but neither do the professionals who teach it or to whom public entrusts its money.... you are attempting to threaten the food supply chain that feed the market
but as i said earlier people do not heed (and really do not need the advice) , and that is what drives the market
so let it be
truth101,
This post actually makes sense to me. Thanks.
I am the amateur you are trying to get your message across. Points well taken. I do need to work on 1).
Best to you.
Even though most of the above sounds right, the issue is not to confuse the sound with the correct meaning (which imho is somewhat missing) of what should follow from the each postulate
===IF you think you are gonna make a million dollars during your first 1 years trading, then quit while you're ahead.===
First of, it's not the business for quitters, regardless of their original expectations and the best intentions of advisers
Also, 1 million dollars in first year is not something unheard of, much depends on the original amount of the deposit (it can be 900k)
So let's rephrase postulate #1: Regardless of how much money one expected to make or to loose in the first year, regardless how much one actually lost or made in the first year
===IF you think you think all those "gurus" lifestyles are from trading alone, then quit while you're ahead.===
One just should not confuse "gurus" with gurus.
Gurus practically not available to the newbie, and even if their would he can not really learn from them , since they would not teach. And their lifestyle is from trading only, but they not necessarily sailing yachts (what for?)
====IF you think this is easy skill to learn, then quit while you're ahead.====
It is an easy skill to learn.
But the term leaning usually suggests that somebody is teaching.. That the problem - all teachers here can not trade themselves. The knowledge here, unlike other fields of human enterprise, is generally not transferable in trading. So not only no one to learn from, but all experiments are made on one's own ass....Can you imaging learning heart surgery on your own heart? Exactly ! One would be dead soon. Trader's learn on their own open wallet.
===IF you don't have the time to dedicate, and i mean really dedicate,then quit while you're ahead.===
True , but what we are talking about? Year, two, ten, twenty? Life?
Probably life...
===IF you have any financial responsibility during the first couple years of the start of trading.===
the minimum responsibility is at least to feed oneself ... he-he. Some one should feed you... rich daddy, sugar mama?
====IF you think there is a "holy grail strategy", then quit while you're ahead.===
there is a holy grail strategy
===You'll have to dedicate much more time in the beginning and then as you improve you'll notice you don't need to really do much except manage trades===
baloney
and what is beginning (its a very relative term)
trading is a continues process...unfortunately or fortunately its much more than managing the trades, its managing the method (for those few who has it ),making sure its applied properly to current situation
===If you think TA doesn't work then leave my fucking thread now because you are an idiot===
Of course it does not work, that's why all TA analyst are miserable as traders... An it should not work... its just a medium upon which one builds a method. Does wind work? nope.. One need a sail or a windmill to harness its energy. Is wind the only medium from which energy can be utilized? nope, there are many others, but one needs to have a method to utilize the energy of the particular medium be it an oil, or atom... same way in trading/investing. TA can be used, FA can be used, QA can be used but only with proper methods. On its own there are useless... Therefore one should not confuse analysis with method !
===Stare at naked chart for a few months and you'll start to see things differently.===
Reminds me an old Russian anecdote, when someone asks a guys what he is thinking about when he stares at the brick
He answers: I think about the women?
-Why?
- I always think about them....
So just to stare is not enough unfortunately...
