Immensely rewarding, and mission accomplished. Time to move on...
Tim Morge and the well-chosen example
- Thread starter Maverick1
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Immensely rewarding, and mission accomplished. Time to move on...
I just want to say thanks to you guys for digging, these past few months.
As much as I did get valuable (free) insight from Tim Morge about both money management and market behavior, it's still hugely disappointing to discover how much of his credentials were fabricated. Unnecessarily, because the material stands on its own as a rather unique way of looking at price action, great not so much in itself but as a tool to learn to explore no ways of thinking. Though I guess those "credentials" were what got him at CME/IB for me to discover, in the first place…
Oh well.
As much as I did get valuable (free) insight from Tim Morge about both money management and market behavior, it's still hugely disappointing to discover how much of his credentials were fabricated. Unnecessarily, because the material stands on its own as a rather unique way of looking at price action, great not so much in itself but as a tool to learn to explore no ways of thinking. Though I guess those "credentials" were what got him at CME/IB for me to discover, in the first place…
Oh well.
Dear VPhantom,
Morge fooled a lot of people, for more than a decade, but it’s all over now. To give you an idea, there is a member at Market Geometry who manages an FX trading desk at a bank in Asia, who even flew to a live seminar Morge held in Chicago in September 2015, and who had been at Market Geometry for 6+ years, and he just figured it out. So a lot of confused, and “damaged” people out there. Very (hugely) dissappointing indeed...
Dear SunTrader
Wire Fraud? Several members have considered a class action lawsuit, but it seems easier (and healthier) to simply move on...
Accusations can always be made but based on what ... hearsay?
Dear SunTrader,
I think the entire thread is pretty self-explanatory. Timothy Morge fabricated his advanced degrees, 3 Phds (Mathematics, Physics, Economics), among many other things. He gave many webinars at Interactive Brokers (where neither the CME nor IB did any due diligence). There are around 20-30 webinars at IB, averaging around 90 minutes, where Morge states these false degrees for the record. He even corrects one attendee, and expresses how he can be referred to as “Dr, Dr, Dr”. I mean, this is hardly “hearsay”. This is someone using the IB Education platform to promote his website/solicit business, Market Geometry, based on misleading information, and lies.
I hope this clarifies your “hearsay” argument. I believe the segments from the IB webinars, where Morge constantly makes these false claims could indeed be played in a court of law, in front of a jury. But we did our cost-analysis, and considering Shane Blankenship’s recent bankruptcy, it’s probably best to move on.
Cheers...
Dear SunTrader,
Throughout the IB Webinars presented by Timothy Morge, which I have personally gone through, he uses both words “Phd”, as well as “Doctor”. There are no doctorates in three different fields; they do not exist. I am sure user “VPhantom” can attest to this, as he has also gone through all the free Market Geometry material stored at Interactive Brokers.
Agreed on your point about a class action lawsuit. I had lengthy conversations with members who know people in government agencies, and it’s simply not worth it. Better to move on...
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I agree that it's totally possible Tim doesn't have whatever education credentials he's said he had. Although it may be a lie that's not really important to me in my learning; thought shady many people have lied about credentials but still have been effective at whatever they do.
What's important to me is what experience he has trading and where is his money coming from (only subscriptions?). We already know he's had several senior level trading positions at known banks. You can also see he traded on the floor for a short period of time.
Article from 2001:
"I left the bank in 1991 to form a CTA. I managed offshore money for a large commodity pool until 1994. In 1995, I took a break for a few months, then leased a seat on the CME. I had always wanted to try trading on the floor, and now with the pits disappearing, I'm glad I took the time to try it."
http://web.archive.org/web/20011220230708/http://blackthornecapital.com:80/tdinterview.html
In the attached picture, you can see his badge THRN. So it's clear he had a seat under his own company name 'Blackthorne Capital, Inc.' as he said a 2001 article. Depending upon the time of the year, his seat ranged from $822,000-$575,000.
http://www.cmegroup.com/company/membership/historical-pricing/cme-historical-membership-pricing.html
I would assume he'd join at the beginning of the year but lets say $700,000 to be safe. Inflation adjusted to 2018 US dollars, he paid about $1,200,000 for a seat.
It's seems pretty questionable to me that he would spend $1.2M (2018 dollars) off customer subscriptions to buy a seat on the floor. It would seem like money would have had to be coming in from another source other than just customers. It would take many hundreds of students to fund his seat on the floor and not even pay for his lifestyle. So money had to be coming in from another source. Maybe being a successful trader? I don't know.
I'm still open to believe both sides. The lack of supposed education credentials in non-trading fields doesn't prove he cannot trade, it just opens doubt but I have not directly seen anything that proves he's a trading fraud. We have seen he has more than a 45 year career in the trading industry. I would think he'd learn something over that period of time. It also seems like he has to have another source of income beyond students. He doesn't even advertise and doesn't have that many students.
There's gotta be stronger evidence than only his lack of PHD credentials and the other evidence provided on this board. Who knows he might be a pathological liar that's a successful trader with delusions of grandeur. The sheer size of his trading seems unbelievable but I know traders making $100,000 a day like it's nothing and on a good day a couple million. Unfortunately, not everything is on the internet
What's important to me is what experience he has trading and where is his money coming from (only subscriptions?). We already know he's had several senior level trading positions at known banks. You can also see he traded on the floor for a short period of time.
Article from 2001:
"I left the bank in 1991 to form a CTA. I managed offshore money for a large commodity pool until 1994. In 1995, I took a break for a few months, then leased a seat on the CME. I had always wanted to try trading on the floor, and now with the pits disappearing, I'm glad I took the time to try it."
http://web.archive.org/web/20011220230708/http://blackthornecapital.com:80/tdinterview.html
In the attached picture, you can see his badge THRN. So it's clear he had a seat under his own company name 'Blackthorne Capital, Inc.' as he said a 2001 article. Depending upon the time of the year, his seat ranged from $822,000-$575,000.
http://www.cmegroup.com/company/membership/historical-pricing/cme-historical-membership-pricing.html
I would assume he'd join at the beginning of the year but lets say $700,000 to be safe. Inflation adjusted to 2018 US dollars, he paid about $1,200,000 for a seat.
It's seems pretty questionable to me that he would spend $1.2M (2018 dollars) off customer subscriptions to buy a seat on the floor. It would seem like money would have had to be coming in from another source other than just customers. It would take many hundreds of students to fund his seat on the floor and not even pay for his lifestyle. So money had to be coming in from another source. Maybe being a successful trader? I don't know.
I'm still open to believe both sides. The lack of supposed education credentials in non-trading fields doesn't prove he cannot trade, it just opens doubt but I have not directly seen anything that proves he's a trading fraud. We have seen he has more than a 45 year career in the trading industry. I would think he'd learn something over that period of time. It also seems like he has to have another source of income beyond students. He doesn't even advertise and doesn't have that many students.
There's gotta be stronger evidence than only his lack of PHD credentials and the other evidence provided on this board. Who knows he might be a pathological liar that's a successful trader with delusions of grandeur. The sheer size of his trading seems unbelievable but I know traders making $100,000 a day like it's nothing and on a good day a couple million. Unfortunately, not everything is on the internet
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