Thoughtful Progressives See Common Ground With Alt Right

[java]

Can they get someone to run who is not a total goofball?

What was it about Gary Johnson you thought was so goofy?

 

[wildchild]

What was it about Gary Johnson you thought was so goofy?

He was a goof. Did the guy seriously not know what Aleppo was? He could make a non-interventionist argument against action, but he has to at least know what is going on in the world. How can you be President if you are not even up to speed on current events?

They really wasted a golden opportunity this past election cycle. You had two of the worst candidates ever for the major parties. The fact that they couldnt make any headway in 2016 shows how bad Johnson was.

 

[java]

He was a goof. Did the guy seriously not know what Aleppo was? He could make a non-interventionist argument against action, but he has to at least know what is going on in the world. How can you be President if you are not even up to speed on current events?

They really wasted a golden opportunity this past election cycle. You had two of the worst candidates ever for the major parties. The fact that they couldnt make any headway in 2016 shows how bad Johnson was.

Trump is good for paving the way. Aleppo was a media gaff and had nothing to do with Gary Johnson or the libertarian party. Skipping politics for a minute in that who is electable, most people if you just talk to them are libertarians. Or at least almost all men are. I watch that girl on Morning Joe msnbc form 6 to 7 and she is terrified all the time of everything and wants the government to deal with her fears for her. Oh well world now 51% female and getting more and more so I guess the old boy way of doing things is coming to an end. If it weren't for Trump politics already would be a girl thing.

 

[wildchild]

Trump is good for paving the way. Aleppo was a media gaff and had nothing to do with Gary Johnson or the libertarian party. Skipping politics for a minute in that who is electable, most people if you just talk to them are libertarians. Or at least almost all men are. I watch that girl on Morning Joe msnbc form 6 to 7 and she is terrified all the time of everything and wants the government to deal with her fears for her. Oh well world now 51% female and getting more and more so I guess the old boy way of doing things is coming to an end. If it weren't for Trump politics already would be a girl thing.

Aleppo had to do with Gary Johnson, but not necessarily the libertarian party.

On the thing with females you are pretty much correct. Now a days if a 10 year old boy acts like a 10 year old boy they want to put him on medication. Its a sick world and doesnt appear to be getting any better.

 

[piezoe]

One of the political themes that has fascinated me is the convergence of far left and far right opinion. We saw in the primaries that many Bernie supporters shared the same basic concerns as Trump supporters, even if the thought of supporting a republican was unthinkable to them. Similarly, we see the black nationalist "hotep" movement openly advocating alliance with the alt right.

This article is a pretty good examination of this phenomenon from the perspective of an apparently non-crazy progressive.
She makes the point that the decision whether or not to prosecute Julian Assange will likely be a make or break issue for Trump and his alt right supporters. Assange is the Deep State's number one enemy, as he has repeatedly embarrassed them and in the process, assumed cult hero status among groups like 4chan.

Trump's dizzying move from non-interventionist to neo-con has already alarmed supporters. His seeming willingness to use trade reform as a bargaining chip to enlist China's help with North Korea is perhaps understandable, but it undermines another key campaign issue. He appears to be holding fairly strong on immigration, his other signature issue.

Assange admittedly presents a difficult issue. He did publish secret documents that probably hurt national security. So did the NYTimes and WashPost and no one is prosecuting them. Assange also exposed the lies told to congress by the head of national security. Not coincidentally Wikileaks published the leaked DNC and Podesta files that exposed corruption in the democrat party and sickening toadying by the mainstream media.

Underestimating Trump is dangerous. He may be using Assange as leverage or as a bargaining chip with the Deep State. "Bring me the leakers and people who spied on my campaign and I'll give you Assange." And they could always let Assange off with a slap on the wrist.

It seems very wrong however. Why alienate your most ardent supporters? A little gratitude would not be out of place either.

People may be forgetting the third and fourth parties. Ecuador, and Great Britain. It is not at all clear that Trump could prosecute Assange, even if he wanted too. If Trump wants to use Assange as a bargaining chip with the 'deep State' (whatever that is) he better hope the 'deep state' is as easily suckered as the "freshmen" at 'Trump University'. He failed to sucker El Presidente de Mexico. Will he succeed with El Presidente de Ecuador? For Trumps sake, let's hope the 'Art of the Deal' doesn't depend on the counterparty be dumber than Trump!

 

[AAAintheBeltway]

Seeing "free market" as a fraud because no one in government defends it, does not make "free market" a fraud. The same with the Constitution. There is no party that defends either principle, but that does not mean the principles are bad. Neither principle is defended because of a lack of courage.

As far as immigration laws being enforced, you have already shot that one dead. If you turn your back on free market because no one defends it, and you turn your back on the Constitution because no one defends it, then you must turn your back on immigration laws, because no one defends them, even Trump.

As far as free trade is concerned, I think an entire attitude adjustment is in order. If you think you can show up and do mediocre work and still make middle class money, you are sadly mistaken. You are not entitled to anything in life, regardless what your elected officials tell you. I was listening to the radio the other day and this guy was saying he worked construction and he estimated that 90% of the construction workers used marijuana on the job. I think the stat is overblown, but it highlights an issue.

It's not that what you say is wrong, because it's not, it's just that we seem to be way past all that. You and George Will are arguing about who is the real conservative, and the rest of us are buying guns and ammo because we see what's coming.

 

[jem]

you claim to be a libertarian but support tpp and having the IRS targeting conservatives, you think it was smart to give nukes to iran and you claim to be pro US worker but support bringing a million immigrants a year.

when you explain that crap you have right to call trump dumb.
and don't try the usual leftist lies...
its not cute or smart when you deny cash went to iran and Obama wanted to sell them yellow cake and the treaty allows them to get within 6 months of a bomb in a decade.

People may be forgetting the third and fourth parties. Ecuador, and Great Britain. It is not at all clear that Trump could prosecute Assange, even if he wanted too. If Trump wants to use Assange as a bargaining chip with the 'deep State' (whatever that is) he better hope the 'deep state' is as easily suckered as the "freshmen" at 'Trump University'. He failed to sucker El Presidente de Mexico. Will he succeed with El Presidente de Ecuador? For Trumps sake, let's hope the 'Art of the Deal' doesn't depend on the counterparty be dumber than Trump!

 

[piezoe]

It's not that what you say is wrong, because it's not, it's just that we seem to be way past all that. You and George Will are arguing about who is the real conservative, and the rest of us are buying guns and ammo because we see what's coming.

interesting comments!

 

[piezoe]

...Gary Johnson or the libertarian party.

I don't know what your true politics are. That's your business. But I hope you realize that Gary Johnson , like the majority of others here that are calling themselves Libertarians, is not a Libertarian. That's just a label they have co-opted. Of course if they keep this up people will eventually forget what traditional Libertarians stood for and just associate the label with what ever it is that these anti-government folks espouse. Johnson's running mate, Bill Weld, was a Libertarian, and I guess that's why they fell ought with each other. Noam Chomsky had something to say about this co-opting of the Libertarian label. He hasn't quite figured out what these folks who are running around insisting on calling themselves "Libertarians" are either, but he has referred to them as "anarcho-capitalists," and this seems to me to be a fair description.

 

[Tsing Tao]

I don't know what your true politics are. That's your business. But I hope you realize that Gary Johnson , like the majority of others here that are calling themselves Libertarians, is not a Libertarian. That's just a label they have co-opted. Of course if they keep this up people will eventually forget what traditional Libertarians stood for and just associate the label with what ever it is that these anti-government folks espouse. Johnson's running mate, Bill Weld, was a Libertarian, and I guess that's why they fell ought with each other. Noam Chomsky had something to say about this co-opting of the Libertarian label. He hasn't quite figured out what these folks who are running around insisting on calling themselves "Libertarians" are either, but he has referred to them as "anarcho-capitalists," and this seems to me to be a fair description.

Dude, you've droned on and on about this repeatedly. No current political party actually stands for what they stood for when they were created. Not Liberals, not Conservatives, and certainly not Libertarians. You need to face the fact that living in your 18th century history book is now irrelevant and reclass yourself accordingly. Unless you just want to shout at the rain and not make sense to anyone unaware or uncaring of the past.

Get with it. You are not a Libertarian anymore. The definition of the political party has changed. Your views are more aligned with Liberals today, and that makes you a Liberal. If you go to a social event (assuming you get out of the house) and tell people what you believe in, they'll label you a Liberal (like we all do here) and when you object and say something like "Technically, I'm a libertarian the way it used to be 100 years ago", people will nod politely, forget what you said 5 min later and label you a kook (which isn't far from the truth).

Get over it.