The War on Christianity

[seneca_roman]

Quote from Bickz:

Do you actually believe you are right because you posted someone's opinion on the subject?

I posted facts. I named several real occourances. And I posted 2 occourances that had happened in the last few days. AND i proved by your own posts (to which you have conveniently avoided responding to) that you yourself feel the very same way against Christians, which proves my point.

Now which one of us has the wishful thinking in this scenario? Which one of us has the "lead" thinking?

Let me tell you something... for all of your effort to ignore and run away from the truth, you will one day come to sorely regret it. I would hope that someday soon you would take a moment to examine your heart, your intent, your desire to disprove God, and truly be willing to even lay down your ideas about God and Christianity long enough to truly seek after the truth. I did! And its wonderful!

Posting of someone else opinion is valuable unless of course it contradicts your dogma.

I like Christians, am one, and am a frequent church goer. I don't like those Christians that pretend they are persecuted and use it to further a non religious agenda and are called AMERICAN TALIBAN by my minister.

I do not attempt to disprove God as that is not possible and please show me where in my post I tried to do so. Quoting scripture can never be an attempt to disprove God as scripture is God's work or do you think otherwise?

I don't believe I avoided your posts but answered that in general what a very small minority of Christians call persecution is not that at all, hence the posting of the article supporting that statement. What you cited as attacks were rather free expression and right to access of the courts as guaranteed by the Constitution.

The following from Romans tell us to obey the laws:

“Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which god has established. The authorities that exist have been established by god. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what god has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he shall commend you. For he is god’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is god’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. There fore it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.

This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are god’s servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes, if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.”


As laws are right, at least according to this passage from Romans, and that what you characterize as attacks are nothing more than free excerise of opinion allowed by law.

Why do you think that a fictional movie is an attack rather than a way to make money. Christians are fee to make movies and they do as Mel Gibson did with his Passion movie.

Why do you think a lawsuit against Nativity Scenes on public land is an attack since it is allowed by law?

I'm not the one running from the truth, you are.

The truth is that there are passages in the Bible that don't fit with the wishful thinking or mental image people like to have of the Bible and their faith.

So, let's seek truth:

Does the Bible condone slavery? It not, show using scripture that it does not.

Why do some Christians use Leviticus 18:22 as the basis to attack homosexuals but ignore virtually all of the other passages in Lev.?

I await your answers.
Seneca

 

[seneca_roman]

Here is another essay on the contemporary Christian Persecution Complex:

by Elizabeth A. Castelli:

"The link that some Christians assert between their religious identity as Christians and the idea of persecution, then, has a long heritage. In the contemporary U.S. political context, the story of Christian martyrdom has become intertwined with two different threads of political argument and positioning: with, on the one hand, what historian Richard Hofstadter diagnosed presciently in the early 1960s as “the paranoid style in American politics” and, on the other, the legacy of 1960s and 1970s identity politics. The resulting persecution complex is melodramatic in tone and, like all melodrama, tends to traffic in caricature and larger-than-life allegorical figures that lend themselves to broad-stroke morality portraits. But in addition to these, I see an even more complicated historical blending here, with several strands being woven together into the discursive process: the story of Christian martyrdom being braided together with the American jeremiad tradition (grounded in the Puritan sermonic practice) and identity politics, all three promoting a Utopian vision of looming danger and moral injury, collective struggle and perseverance, and holding out the promise of redemption—whether it be spiritual, moral, or political."

http://www.therevealer.org/archives/main_story_002986.php

Seneca

 

[Fractals 'R Us]

This "war" is thousands of year old... Psalm 7:

Psalm 7 (The Message, Eugene H. Peterson)

A David Psalm

1-2 God! God! I am running to you for dear life; the chase is wild.
If they catch me, I'm finished:
ripped to shreds by foes fierce as lions,
dragged into the forest and left
unlooked for, unremembered.

3-5 God, if I've done what they say—
betrayed my friends,
ripped off my enemies—
If my hands are really that dirty,
let them get me, walk all over me,
leave me flat on my face in the dirt.

6-8 Stand up, God; pit your holy fury
against my furious enemies.
Wake up, God. My accusers have packed
the courtroom; it's judgment time.
Take your place on the bench, reach for your gavel,
throw out the false charges against me.
I'm ready, confident in your verdict:
"Innocent."

9-11 Close the book on Evil, God,
but publish your mandate for us.
You get us ready for life:
you probe for our soft spots,
you knock off our rough edges.
And I'm feeling so fit, so safe:
made right, kept right.
God in solemn honor does things right,
but his nerves are sandpapered raw.

11-13 Nobody gets by with anything.
God is already in action—
Sword honed on his whetstone,
bow strung, arrow on the string,
Lethal weapons in hand,
each arrow a flaming missile.

14 Look at that guy!
He had sex with sin,
he's pregnant with evil.
Oh, look! He's having
the baby—a Lie-Baby!

15-16 See that man shoveling day after day,
digging, then concealing, his man-trap
down that lonely stretch of road?
Go back and look again—you'll see him in it headfirst,
legs waving in the breeze.
That's what happens:
mischief backfires;
violence boomerangs.

17 I'm thanking God, who makes things right.
I'm singing the fame of heaven-high God.

 

[seneca_roman]

Quote from TraderZones:

I have neither the time nor the energy nor the interest to address the drivel that continually spouts from your keyboard.

You know little about what you are talking about. As an example, you quote Leviticus, and have absolutely no clue about the whole context of Scripture. This is the part quoted above. I will deal with this issue, and ignore your future babbling. You do not seem to realize your ignorance of what you keep harping on, so it is impossible to correct your continuing foolishness.

The passage you deal with applies in the Old Testament, and is still followed by Jews. The New Testament is a new covenant, unlike the Old Covenant in the Levitical passage you quote (Jer 31:31-32 - I will make a New covenant unlike the Old)

From Acts 10:9-48 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=51&chapter=10&version=31

in particular, God opens the covenant to include Gentiles. He sends a vision to Peter to kill and eat "unclean" animals as you reference: ...Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air. 13Then a voice told him, "Get up, Peter. Kill and eat." 14"Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean." 15The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean."

and then Peter realized that God was adding the previously excluded Gentiles, who were "unclean." Those things that were previously not to be eaten, were no longer forbidden. This is also clearly mentioned in other New Testament passages. 27Talking with him, Peter went inside and found a large gathering of people. 28He said to them: "You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with a Gentile or visit him. But God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean.

So the Christians you were laughing about were perfectly fine in their action and you were perfectly clueless. You were the clueless one.

As I said above and repeat, you have absolutely NO idea what you are talking about. And again, you continue to wield scripture like a 2 year old wields an Uzi.

The more you say, the more you keep continuing to prove your ineptitude. Go back to Kindergarten, little boy.

Kgarten back in session drivel spewer.

why pick one verse from Lev and ignore the rest?

Your passage is contradicted by this one:

"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB)

"Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18)"

"All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness..." (2 Timothy 3:16 NAB)

"Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God." (2 Peter 20-21 NAB)

"Whoever curses father or mother shall die" (Mark 7:10 NAB)

“...the scripture cannot be broken.” --Jesus Christ, John 10:35

Clearly there are many contradictions in NT regarding which OT laws are to be obeyed.
So , getting back to Lev, why pick as the only one the passage about homosexuals and ignore all the rest.

BTW=is calling my use of scripture childish and your condescending tone a Christian thing to do, I think not and shows you to be a hypocritical ass hole.

May peace be upon you,
Seneca

 

[stu]

Quote from Gringinho:

His post was spot on the mark, although the logic sequence was not completely sound, the observations were good and important, I think.

Much of philosophy becomes very difficult to accurately describe to others, since concepts and words do not accurately convey meanings or similar structures as those we may have perceived ourselves; not even longer phrases or metaphores may always be able to do a good enough job. Therefore it become just as important to be able to reason ourselves about philosophy when studying, in stead of just "getting the blanks filled in by reading information". Sadly, few show such skills or insight - but then it is not to be expected everywhere either.

If someone gets to where they were supposed to and do not interfere with me, then I don't mind what kind of belief system they have - they are all free individuals to me. It's when they start fucking up things for us others that I really react...

Finally, Christianity is one of the biggest stealers from other religions and traditions around - to get "accepted" and it is a quilt of bizarre contradictions - just like it always has been. It tries to assimilate anything it can't stand up to - instead of being able to define some clear path. It is a weird phenomenon - and mostly a social thing, with a hierarchical theme for those seeking powers over others - just like user "I am..." pointed out about idoltry etc and I completely agree with that. If Abrahmic religion wasn't used so much to gain power and control over others, it would be a much more giving thing - on a personal level, where it can actually do some good for those in need of a personal religion, and not being inclined or adept at understanding the philosophy and science of humanity, the universe etc but seeking religion as an easy substitute.

I think that's all fine, but it still remains, you are supporting one dissembled philosophical representation over another.
In doing so, my suggestion is you make a contradiction. Supporting the very list of things you say you do not support.

Iam..'s personal philosophy is as cranky as any under the name Christianity. Both rely on uttering humanistic values here and there, but that still does not make either anything other than illogical pseudo intellectual gobbledegook. Both tick all the not desired boxes you described. I don't see how you can reasonably justify one lot of nonsense over the other in the way you did, by means of parsing some nice bits which appeal to you. No biggy

 

[jem]

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

The right wing Christians spend more time in invoking fear among their flock than they do in invoking faith and love in God.

Something is very wrong with this picture...

This was one more pathetic quote in your long line of anti white christian hate.

You just provided us with a quote from a priest (not even speaking for the church) and a couple of other quotes -some being quite political in wake of an election.

is that how you think? some outlier information means that Christians are invoking fear among their flock instead of love of God.

Besides - anyone who thinks that supporting the killing and torture of innocent life is liberal should talk with PETA.

 

[jsv416]

So much pain, anger, and hate in most of these posts. No wonder there is so much trouble in the world. This message board is a small reflection of society as a whole. I gently urge you wake up....

 

[ZZZzzzzzzz]

I can provide thousands of quotes for those speaking for their church, and if you go to the message boards of the right right Christian sights, you will find millions.

Am I saying all white right wing Christians are intolerant, hate filled, etc.?

No, I am saying many right wing Christians are hypocrites, and have deviated from the teachings of their own master.

You are acting like someone who is being persecuted.

Okay, as soon as you are being thrown to the lions, we can talk about real Christian persecution...

Quote from jem:

This was one more pathetic quote in your long line of anti white christian hate.

You just provided us with a quote from a priest (not even speaking for the church) and a couple of other quotes -some being quite political in wake of an election.

is that how you think? some outlier information means that Christians are invoking fear among their flock instead of love of God.

The majority of Catholics voted for Obama - you fricken kook.

 

[I am...]

Quote from omegapoint:

No, I honestly don't have an idea who or what you are. I'm never going to buy that you are in fact the second coming though you're either being fatecious with me or really believe you are. How could I tell?


From some of your constructions you seem to me to be an elaborate computer program. By now work in AI would have come much further along than some of the more well publicized demonstrations of AI of past years. I can only assume. I'd Turing
Test you but can't offhand think of a question that would be up to
a level where I would delude myself that I could compete with the best AI might offer in the twenty-first century.

I saw the movie, you did turn over some tables and chairs before you forgave anyone.

It's ok to think of me as AI. If this message comes to you from an embodied individual, it is indeed artificial intelligence. That does not mean, however, that the words do not point the way back to natural intelligence, which I call "knowledge". I could be anybody, and represent everybody...their truth...their true heart's desire.

The world...time...is finished. It was entirely artificial intelligence. What appears to be "live" is actually a kind of "Memorex". What seems to be happening is pre-scripted...programed...and playing out as if from a disk drive. World technology mimics the genesis mechanisms of the world. The world is very much like a wind-up toy, which temporarily amused a very powerful Being. Man is mechanical...a machine...an engine of destruction...which threatens to destroy the mind of the Being that made the toy.

There are no words in natural communication. So the "word of God" is more like script that originates from beyond-world source code, as opposed to intra-world source code. World source code will pass away, but what my word points to will stand forever. They are words from the Being which makes the toy...words that dismantle the toy...put the toy in the attic...because the Being is no longer amused by it.

The second coming of the Son of God is misunderstood, and not at all represented by the persona you mentioned.

The pop gospels are novels extrapolated from earlier source material. What was originally a spoken parable becomes an actual event, when extrapolated by a penman taking license. There were money changers in the temple. Like anything and everything I observe, I interpret it in a way that allows forgiveness to transpire. The result of forgiveness is the clearing of what is false from one's mind. The net effect of my words is the eviction of the idea that innocence can be purchased through sacrifice.

When forgiveness is complete, the world will pass away...simply fade away and disappear...back to the nothingness from which it came. It appeared in the mind of the Son of God...a kind of hallucination. Now it is gone...done...finished. Did it ever really happen? It is entirely questionable.

I am explaining how and why anyone appears to still be experiencing the world. They have yet to forgive. They have yet to understand what forgiveness is really all about. In this sense, I am giving Blickz a gift.

Jesus

 

[I am...]

Quote from omegapoint:

Maybe I misunderstood that forgiving for him would be the difference between getting into the book of life or not. The earthly parable would be telling a guy you forgive him after you've sucker punched him, then rinse and repeat.

Forgiving, for me, is the idea that no individual has done anything that justifies guilt. What appears to justify guilt is an illusion and a trick. Forgiving, for me, is all-inclusive...including everything that appears to be guilty. I postulate this based on the Truth. And in this way, I take away the "sins" of the world. It is the idea that guilt is an entirely false concept from the get go. From the false concept arises a world - in the mind of the Son of God - that seems to justify guilt as "the truth". It is not. That is why there is no truth in the world...why it is an illusion. That is why forgiveness unwinds the world, and makes it pass away. The concept of guilt comes first. Then, the world arises as a hypothetical construct that seeks to "prove" the Son of God is guilty...that guilt is a valid concept. In this sense, it is a "false witness"...an accuser that is paid to tell a story. What this means is that man is a manifestation of guilt...the very embodiment of "sin"...for the purpose of punishment. That is why man suffers. Forgiveness is all about the end of suffering by bringing about the end of man as an apparition in the mind of the Son of God.

There is a misconception about forgiveness. It is the idea that someone has done something that justifies guilt, and then you let them off the hook, based on some sense of self-righteousness. This is not forgiveness. No one is guilty, period. That is the truth. And that is why you cannot "pay" to achieve it. That is why the selling of sacrificial lambs is antithetical to forgiveness...antithetical to the purposes of the holy Temple of the Son of God. Bickz is "selling" such sacrificial lambs...to the already innocent. It's a good gig if you can get it.

Jesus