The Truth about Daytrading Futures..

[lindq]

Quote from Trend Fader:


The biggest problem most people have with holding overnight are those overnight bombshells. But in reality.. if position sized properly they will not dent your overall performance.

The gains of holding longer posiitions, if correctly bought, far outweigh the occasional bomb. As you said, the key is not getting too greedy, and if possible, holding multiple positions for diversity.

I agree with your statements about the general lack of success trading intraday, and I think it has a lot to do with the fact that for some reason, new traders gravitate toward day trading, when in fact, they should be trying to avoid it. IMO, it is the toughest place to make money consistently, so they quickly get discouraged or blow out their account. If one daytrades at all, it should come AFTER mastering the trading business in longer timeframes. It is like putting a new driver in the seat of a 12 cylinder Viper. Not safe. Yes, some can do it. But not most.

To most new traders, the concept of "trading" is equated to "daytrading". That's too bad, because the result is the high numbers of flunkies.

 

[nitro]

There are 18,000 members on ET. Let's say 15,000 of those are unique. If the stats on trading for a living are correct, 700 of those are so are actually making a living. Let's say further that of those 700 professional traders, 1/2 of them are active on ET, or about 350 professional traders active on ET. Of those that are active, maybe 50% will get a chance to read this thread, and maybe another 10% of those will take the time to respond to something that interests us.

Then the odds of getting a thread that says there are people making a living from the eminis are about .1%, or 1/10th of 1 percent.

As traders, we learn to think this way about uncertain things, that is, we learn to think in probabilities. I suggest you start applying the same kind of science to postings on ET.

nitro

 

[Cdntrader]

"
There is a time for all things, but I didn't know it. And that is precisely what beats so many men on Wall Street who are very far from being in the main sucker class. There is the plain fool, who does the wrong thing at all times everywhere, but there is the Wall Street fool, who thinks he must trade all the time. No man can always have adequate reasons for buying and selling stocks daily - or sufficient knowledge to make his play an intelligent play."

Jesse Livermore

 

[Tea]

Quote from nitro:

There are 18,000 members on ET. Let's say 15,000 of those are unique. If the stats on trading for a living are correct, 700 of those are so are actually making a living. Let's say further that of those 700 professional traders, 1/2 of them are active on ET, or about 350 professional traders active on ET. Of those that are active, maybe 50% will get a chance to read this thread, and maybe another 10% of those will take the time to respond to something that interests us.

Then the odds of getting a thread that says there are people making a living from the eminis are about .1%, or 1/10th of 1 percent.

As traders, we learn to think this way about uncertain things, that is, we learn to think in probabilities. I suggest you start applying the same kind of science to postings on ET.

nitro

The thing is: of the .1% who as you say profitably make a living trading the emini – no one discusses what they really use to make money. So, you have the .1% and the 99.9%, for a total of 100% discussing unproven or unprofitable methods.

Bottom line – no one should expect a free lunch here.

 

[RAMOUTAR]

IMO the ES provide a lot of benefits that are not found in equities. I personally have no interest in trading the minis, I tried for awhile and just couldn't get into the groove.

By trading the broad ETFs, ES, and NQ I found myself locked into the the trend of the markets themselves. I always found more success in equities.

I agree that there aren't too many traders who are consistently profitable on a daily basis (unless they're trading against orderflow). By focusing of becoming profitable every single day, it a good way to lose. Being consistently profitable on a weekly or monthly basis is much more sensible.

Focusing on finding and executing the right entries and exits produces consistent profits, not focusing on consistent profits.

Good post Trend Fader.

 

[Magna]

Quote from NihabaAshi:

Something else that you've said...

#1. NO such thing as making consistent money every single day daytrading. That is a biggest myth.

....I have never read anywhere were someone said a daytrader can make consistent money every single day...

....never have I've seen that statement.

....can you post a link to anywhere where a trader said the following...

can make consistent money every single day or week daytrading the Eminis.

Maybe you got the above statement mixed up with something like the following...

can make consistent money daytrading the Eminis.

I've seen many statements like the above...but not what you have implied.

Not to say I agree with Trend Fader's entire thesis, but here's a recent post for you:

Quote from AngryBull on 8/7/03:

I´m a little bit astonished over the medioker results
most people on ET presents.
I have been trading full time since 1 year.
The first six month cost some seminarfees.
After that I have had no losing day.

 

[NihabaAshi]

Quote from Magna:

Not to say I agree with Trend Fader's entire thesis, but here's a recent post for you:

Thanks Magna,

Wow...ok...Trend Fader has a good point about those types of posts.

Hmmm...not a single losing trading day in about 6 months.

I can believe it if he has only made a few trades per month

Although I don't read every single posts at this forum...I really didn't think there were such types of posts...

other than the stuff I have read like I'm new and have not had a losing trading day for many weeks types of posts.

NihabaAshi

 

[TMTrader]

Quote from Cdntrader:

"
There is a time for all things, but I didn't know it. And that is precisely what beats so many men on Wall Street who are very far from being in the main sucker class. There is the plain fool, who does the wrong thing at all times everywhere, but there is the Wall Street fool, who thinks he must trade all the time. No man can always have adequate reasons for buying and selling stocks daily - or sufficient knowledge to make his play an intelligent play."

Jesse Livermore

If someone expects to find the "holy grail" on ET he/she is bound to a cruel awakening. He/she will not find it here, and I think this is obvious to anyone who spent a few days (I'm tempted to say hours ) here. However, there are a few diamonds in the rough.

Coming here I do not expect to find new ways to increase my profits but to learn from other peoples mistakes.... and kill a few minutes while I let some programs run...

TM Trader

 

[Trend Fader]

I dont agree with the statements that describe trading as any other business.

Trading should not really be looked upon as a normal business.. its very different.

When you run a good business there is a high chance that you will make a living every single week.. maybe even every single day.

A good trader only makes his $ a few days of the year. Trading should not be viewed as a business that one can have consistent income and a consistent flow of $.

If you look at the way retailers/restaurants operate.. there is a stark difference.




--MIKE

 

[market_man76]

Quote from Trend Fader:


A good trader only makes his $ a few days of the year. Trading should not be viewed as a business that one can have consistent income and a consistent flow of $.

I don't agree with this from personal ongoing experience, which is all I have. I focus on consistancy and not big up days. I prefer the little by little approach and if you put it in poker terms I'd say I'm a "tight" player. I hold no overnights and I trade interest rate futures and some ES.

I have a list of rules that I must operate under during the day and at the end of trading I have to record:
1> if I followed my rules
2> what category PnL was. I have four(up, down, even+, even-)
3> comments on why rules were broken(if they were), what went on in my markets, etc.

Slow consistancy wins the race for me. I actually am in disagreement with your whole premise of this thread but that's your reality; I have mine............